Should the Jazz "Unleash" Collin Sexton?

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Sure, I'm the one using mental gymnastics. If it makes you feel better to say that, go ahead. You also said it was intellectually dishonest to call a below average a below average shooter....so I'm not to concerned about the way you see it.

When compared to nothing (or shedding negative contracts) in the Lonzo/Simmons examples, the 10th pick definitely does not qualify as "extreme low cost" in my book.

This must be your book.

 

[framer]

He has DPOY kind of ceiling as a defender

He objectively does not. It looks like you have run out of your meds.

 

[underdog]

I’ve been in Sexton’s corner ever since he put the Jazz jersey on. But I never thought he could be a starter on our next contending team. Would any of the top contenders play Sexton as a starter? Boston? Denver? Thunder? Mavericks? Timberwolves? They wouldn’t. He is limited as a point guard, not a PG type (playmaker who can run the offense), and he lacks size and defensive skills as a shooting guard. If I’m Danny, I’d trade him for draft assets or in a deal for a star.

 

[Spaniard]

Na, just draft Edey with 10

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

The discussion was "why was sexton being held back" and "will sexton continue to be held back going forward"

When I think about it, this is exactly how he needs to be coached. No one held Sexton back but Sexton. There are different coaching methods you can use. Trick is you can’t coach everyone the same. Player A won’t respond to the same time of coaching Sexton does. A great coach finds a way to get the best out of his players and they ain’t going to accomplish that by treating every player the same.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Also now that I've officially bought into Sexton I'm sure the FO will trade him.

 

[fishonjazz]

Again, agree to disagree. His individual stats might look good but the whole offense shuts down when Sexton is dominating the ball. I hope Hardy keeps the leash on.

You said HE better produce at a high level. He does. End of story. You can disagree with facts if you want to I guess.

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[fishonjazz]

I’ve been in Sexton’s corner ever since he put the Jazz jersey on. But I never thought he could be a starter on our next contending team. Would any of the top contenders play Sexton as a starter? Boston? Denver? Thunder? Mavericks? Timberwolves? They wouldn’t. He is limited as a point guard, not a PG type (playmaker who can run the offense), and he lacks size and defensive skills as a shooting guard. If I’m Danny, I’d trade him for draft assets or in a deal for a star.

I think all of those teams would play him if you swapped out the guy they are already playing at starting point guard and gave them Sexton. And I think Sexton would do well.

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[fishonjazz]

When I think about it, this is exactly how he needs to be coached. No one held Sexton back but Sexton. There are different coaching methods you can use. Trick is you can’t coach everyone the same. Player A won’t respond to the same time of coaching Sexton does. A great coach finds a way to get the best out of his players and they ain’t going to accomplish that by treating every player the same.

The downside is that when you coach sexton this way you hold the team back.

I would see a game where sexton would play perfect basketball for the first 4 minutes of the game and the jazz are playing great and winning. Then Sexton would make one bad mistake and get yanked. Clarkson would come in and make a bunch of mistakes and brick shots and play horrible defense for the next 8 minutes and the jazz would lose the lead and be down big.

If Sexton would have been allowed to play though his mistake then he probably continues to play great and the jazz do as well.


Holding sexton back (the second best player on the team), holds the whole team back imo.

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[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

The downside is that when you coach sexton this way you hold the team back.

If you don’t coach Sexton this way he’ll hold the team back. This is how he needs to be coached he’s got some bad flaws that were neglected in cle.

I would see a game where sexton would play perfect basketball for the first 4 minutes of the game and the jazz are playing great and winning. Then Sexton would make one bad mistake and get yanked. Clarkson would come in and make a bunch of mistakes and brick shots and play horrible defense for the next 8 minutes and the jazz would lose the lead and be down big.

If Sexton would have been allowed to play though his mistake then he probably continues to play great and the jazz do as well.


Holding sexton back (the second best player on the team), holds the whole team back imo.

If the team was good this wouldn’t be happening. Do you want Sexton to be a positive for this team or a negative? Because a negative is what JC is for this team unless he’s on a hot streak. Coach wants him to be great so while the team sucks this is a great time to coach him up. Will is doing this because he sees great potential in Sexton. It’s too late for JC. personally the worst thing that happened to him was Coach Q giving him the biggest green light the league ever saw.

 

[fishonjazz]

If you don’t coach Sexton this way he’ll hold the team back. This is how he needs to be coached he’s got some bad flaws that were neglected in cle.

If the team was good this wouldn’t be happening. Do you want Sexton to be a positive for this team or a negative? Because a negative is what JC is for this team unless he’s on a hot streak. Coach wants him to be great so while the team sucks this is a great time to coach him up. Will is doing this because he sees great potential in Sexton. It’s too late for JC. personally the worst thing that happened to him was Coach Q giving him the biggest green light the league ever saw.

I want the team to win basketball games. I think playing your best players the most is the best way to do that.

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[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

I want the team to win basketball games. I think playing your best players the most is the best way to do that.

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I don’t think he’s can play that many more minutes that would cause this team to make the playoffs outright. This team hasn’t been good enough for that.

Plus, why argue the point? Sexton has already acknowledged he wants to be coached like that. He already improved as a winning player last year, how much more will he improve this year, allstar level? Like I said above, he likes the way coach is coaching him and he’s getting better so why complain about how the coach is coaching him?

 

[fishonjazz]

I don’t think he’s can play that many more minutes that would cause this team to make the playoffs outright. This team hasn’t been good enough for that.

Plus, why argue the point? Sexton has already acknowledged he wants to be coached like that. He already improved as a winning player last year, how much more will he improve this year, allstar level? Like I said above, he likes the way coach is coaching him and he’s getting better so why complain about how the coach is coaching him?

He won't be all star level if he is getting benched after a mistake for much worse players. Also won't be an all star if the team isn't good.

Play him more and allow him more mistakes and he could be an all star and the jazz could win a bunch.

I like that scenario much better than the no all star and less winning scenario but to each their own.

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[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

He won't be all star level if he is getting benched after a mistake for much worse players. Also won't be an all star if the team isn't good.

Play him more and allow him more mistakes and he could be an all star and the jazz could win a bunch.

I like that scenario much better than the no all star and less winning scenario but to each their own.

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You’re not understanding what I’m saying. All I’m saying is the jazz aren’t good the last two years with him playing more min or not so why not coach him up. If this team had been a playoff team he wouldn’t get benched for every mistake, and unless we make any big game hunting moves we will be a lotto team again. He’s getting coached up, I don’t understand your issue with Hardy making him a better player. There has already been a big difference in his play from two years ago, and Sexton loved being coached hard like that.

 

[fishonjazz]

You’re not understanding what I’m saying. All I’m saying is the jazz aren’t good the last two years with him playing more min or not so why not coach him up. If this team had been a playoff team he wouldn’t get benched for every mistake, and unless we make any big game hunting moves we will be a lotto team again. He’s getting coached up, I don’t understand your issue with Hardy making him a better player. There has already been a big difference in his play from two years ago, and Sexton loved being coached hard like that.

Ya you aren't understanding what I'm saying. Here is a clue though. I'm not talking about the past. I'm talking about the future.

That's why I'm using terminology like could be and won't be instead of could have been and would have been etc

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[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Ya you aren't understanding what I'm saying. Here is a clue though. I'm not talking about the past. I'm talking about the future.

That's why I'm using terminology like could be and won't be instead of could have been and would have been etc

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No I understand. My point is do you want a more flawed Sexton or a less flawed Sexton if and when we are ready to compete in the playoffs. Again the fact that this has been a rebuilding team means we can take an extremely flawed player we view as part of our future and use this rebuilding time to make him a better player. Hes already grown leaps and bounds, and still there were times when he’d do something so dumb my jaw would drop as if I had no words to describe what I saw. And these are the types of things that can cost us in the playoffs. If the Jazz don’t take advantage of this rebuilding period we should just trade him.

 

[fishonjazz]

No I understand. My point is do you want a more flawed Sexton or a less flawed Sexton if and when we are ready to compete in the playoffs. Again the fact that this has been a rebuilding team means we can take an extremely flawed player we view as part of our future and use this rebuilding time to make him a better player. Hes already grown leaps and bounds, and still there were times when he’d do something so dumb my jaw would drop as if I had no words to describe what I saw. And these are the types of things that can cost us in the playoffs. If the Jazz don’t take advantage of this rebuilding period we should just trade him.

I want the current sexton we currently have. You know, the all star level producing one that helps us win big time.
I simply want the all star level stud we already have to play more than the crappy players taking his minutes. I think we will just have to agree to disagree.

And this might sound insane but you can actually coach a player hard AND play him the amount of minutes that a player as good as him should get.
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[framer]

I mean the Jazz were obviously throwing games all season. Playing Sexton heavy starters minutes probably wins us a few more games. Hell, as much as he has been maligned, I can think of three or four games where playing Kessler 7 or 8 more minutes probably wins us the game.

There was plenty of times where Sexton was pulled to adversely affect the outcome of a game rather than for him to learn some cosmic lesson.

That crap has to wear on some of the players.

 

[outerspacefan]

I mean the Jazz were obviously throwing games all season. Playing Sexton heavy starters minutes probably wins us a few more games. Hell, as much as he has been maligned, I can think of three or four games where playing Kessler 7 or 8 more minutes probably wins us the game.

There was plenty of times where Sexton was pulled to adversely affect the outcome of a game rather than for him to learn some cosmic lesson.

That crap has to wear on some of the players.

I guess players are just as confused as we are, and probably have reached a point where they don't care anymore about the outcome of games or of the season.
I think even Hardy, Ainge and Smith, for different reasons, do not care very much at this particular moment: Hardy feels safe, Ainge has nothing more to demonstrate and Smith is focused somewhere else upstairs trying to build Utah as a sports little meca).
The bar is so low right now for the Jazz... I guess it will be different a couple years ahead.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

I want the current sexton we currently have. You know, the all star level producing one that helps us win big time.
I simply want the all star level stud we already have to play more than the crappy players taking his minutes. I think we will just have to agree to disagree.

And this might sound insane but you can actually coach a player hard AND play him the amount of minutes that a player as good as him should get.
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Right agree to disagree, I’m just going to leave this here though. If not for Will, we’d still have the low level Sexton we had when he first got here