Fishsticks
Banned
Boozer is loozer, no?
Same record at this point in the season as last
- Thread starter Sloanfeld
- Start date
Fishsticks
Banned
Btw thanks for the neg rep hacktard
Thanks for the unsigned neg rep. And thanks for missing the target by a mile.
fallenchicken
Well-Known Member
Right now I don't think there is much argument; last year we were better. At least at this point in the season.
It's not really any one player/persons fault. It's not because Deron is "pouting" --which is more of a reaction to losing, it's not Raja Smell's hack job defense or inability to hit jumpers or run the floor, it's not CJ Mile's inconsistency, it's not Millsap playing Boozer D, it's not Jefferson not playing help D. It's not Millsap and Jefferson settling for mid range jump shots most of the time, it's not Ak's contract, it's not the inefficient but sometimes energetic bench, it's not timid Rookie Hayward, it's not Okur being slow on recovery and slow on the floor.
It's not the coaching staff's inability to adjust to a different team that obviously are not playing to their full potential.
It's all of that. There might be a really good team somewhere, but they have a lot problems to work out. Last year's team had a lot less.
It's not really any one player/persons fault. It's not because Deron is "pouting" --which is more of a reaction to losing, it's not Raja Smell's hack job defense or inability to hit jumpers or run the floor, it's not CJ Mile's inconsistency, it's not Millsap playing Boozer D, it's not Jefferson not playing help D. It's not Millsap and Jefferson settling for mid range jump shots most of the time, it's not Ak's contract, it's not the inefficient but sometimes energetic bench, it's not timid Rookie Hayward, it's not Okur being slow on recovery and slow on the floor.
It's not the coaching staff's inability to adjust to a different team that obviously are not playing to their full potential.
It's all of that. There might be a really good team somewhere, but they have a lot problems to work out. Last year's team had a lot less.
vslice02
Well-Known Member
I agree with Sloanfield's original post. The Jazz were an elite team offensively from 2006-07 until 2009-10. They were average-to-below average defensively, but their phenomenal offense, particularly at home where they would get out and run, was what made them a 50-54 win team. The 2010-11 team has won 27 games mostly on defense, toughness, and scrappiness.
Over the past few weeks, their defense (Utah was leading the league in FG% defense when they were 15-5) has completely fallen apart (most noticeably the 2nd-unit) and now the boat has 2 major leaks.
I know announcers like to point out that the Jazz lead the league in 4th-qtr scoring at 26 ppg, but scoring 25+ in quarters was the norm over the past 4 seasons. From 2006-10, the Jazz scored 25 points or more in 58%, 61%, 60%, and 59% of their overall quarters. They scored 20 or less points in 14%, 7.6%, 9.8%, and 11.9% of their quarters.
This year Utah's 25+ qtrs are down to 49% while their percentage of quarters scoring 20pts or less is up to a whopping 19%.
No matter how the opposing team shoots, in the past the Utah's offense would always keep them in the game and quite often allowed them to win games comfortably. This season, Utah's bread-and-butter has been getting hot for stretches late in the 2nd-half while rallying from double-digit deficits. You tell me which is more sound.
Over the past few weeks, their defense (Utah was leading the league in FG% defense when they were 15-5) has completely fallen apart (most noticeably the 2nd-unit) and now the boat has 2 major leaks.
I know announcers like to point out that the Jazz lead the league in 4th-qtr scoring at 26 ppg, but scoring 25+ in quarters was the norm over the past 4 seasons. From 2006-10, the Jazz scored 25 points or more in 58%, 61%, 60%, and 59% of their overall quarters. They scored 20 or less points in 14%, 7.6%, 9.8%, and 11.9% of their quarters.
This year Utah's 25+ qtrs are down to 49% while their percentage of quarters scoring 20pts or less is up to a whopping 19%.
No matter how the opposing team shoots, in the past the Utah's offense would always keep them in the game and quite often allowed them to win games comfortably. This season, Utah's bread-and-butter has been getting hot for stretches late in the 2nd-half while rallying from double-digit deficits. You tell me which is more sound.
Marty McFly
Well-Known Member
Sloanfeld really needs some friends in real life. I'm not sure I've ever seen someone so desperate for attention and validation from strangers.
Sloanfeld
Banned
For the same reason that people wanted me to acknowledge every time Boozer has had a sub-par game since he came back from injury (and other than the first couple, there's hasn't been many).
One thing that I forgot to mention in my original post was that everyone who kept insisting that last season's team better could not have possibly been that dumb. The rebounding, lack of offensive execution, and poor starts were huge red flags. People saying that this seasons team is better were simply using that as a defense mechanism because they didn't want to face the truth. I see this team as nothing more than a second round exit. I see last seasons team as the second best team in the conference and conference champions had somebody else knocked off the Lakers.
vslice02
Well-Known Member
Throw in "when fully healthy," and I will agree with you on the 2009-10 Utah Jazz. People like to laugh when I write this, but I will forever claim the 2007-08 Jazz team would've made the NBA Finals if not for Bob Delaney and Steve Javie in Game 5.
Those Jazz teams didn't have many faults, but unfortunately the Lakers were one of the few teams able to consistently magnify those faults.
LogGrad98
Well-Known Member
Contributor
20-21 Award Winner
2022 Award Winner
2023 Award Winner
2024 Award Winner
At the risk of sounding jr.-high-ish (I know, right?), you started it.
When I came into the discussion I never made a claim about last years team vs. this years, and I still haven't. In fact I got into the discussion about whether the Bulls are better than we are since they are Jazz pt 2. My statement there was that we cannot compare since there is too much disparity among the teams and that record alone cannot prove anything really, especially when the records are so close.
No what struck me to begin with was how you started foaming at the mouth (keyboard? meh) whenever anyone insinuated at all that Boozer was not the greatest thing since sliced bread. I noticed that your every single post revolved around Boozer and what he meant to this team and how bad he was missed and how you demanded vindication for all the wrong everyone has done you for not acknowledging that you were the Almighty Sloanfield, All-knowing Boozer Fanatic and Prognosticator.
For many of us this is a moot point as we never necessarily disagreed with your initital premise that last years team is better than this years. Many of use said the jury was out on the changes, or said we didn't like some of those changes, etc. Sure there are disagreements about why we are worse this year, and it is obvious the crux of the issue for you is Boozer. Others disagree with that sentiment. The point is there is a spectrum here, which is what you would expect from a diverse group of opinionated people. But you have lumped everyone into 2 boats. You and everyone else. Fit my mold or you must belong to the other. You sound like an extreme left- or right-wing politician.
At first I thought you were just playing it up. Now I can see how seriously this has affected your psyche. You need to remember this is an internet forum that really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. It is, in the end, an entertaining waste of time. I know some people espouse certain opinions just to get a convo going or to bolster an argument of someone they like, or whatever. You are taking this far too seriously.
And in the end you have no objective evidence that Boozer is why we are worse this year, or even the biggest reason. There are just too many factors. It is your opinion, and I can respect that. Please respect that after copious discussions others have differing opinions.
And you can be happy with your opinion even if others disagree, or if they refuse to see or acknowledge your point of view.
memo is money
Active Member
Sloanfeld is right about the fact that this team has not been as good defensively or offensively as last year's team. About the offensive execution, it was totally expectable from the start of the season; a Jazz fan having watched some Jazz basketball troughout years can easily figure out that players get more confident, more efficient and fluent in this offense as they get adjusted to it, spend some time working and getting better at it (which is obviously something these clowns have not done so far, being content with miracle wins, comebacks) so comparing a roster featuring Okur, Boozer, Williams, Miles, Brewer, AK, Millsap (all with 3-4 years together) with a roster featuring 6 new faces and an injured Okur is not logical and applicable at all.
However, one thing we knew for sure and expected is the defensive improvement. This new team played stellar defense throughout the first 20 something games of the season. Miraculously, their offensive efficiency as a group has not improved a lick and the worse thing is they have stopped playing any kind of defense (the worst team in defending the shot recently) and they just do not execute the plays. I wish I knew the reason. Players have eyes to see what Deron or coach implies when the offense is about the set, they have mouths and they can hear, they can communicate. Recently, I started to think about them not having sufficient IQ to figure out things, really, but I think the problem is effort and commitment. How can you lose a game before it even starts? Isn't it the way you feel, think when you see the body languages of players?
The key elements of former Jazz team spent at least 4 years together and they eventually became a phenomenal offensive team, in REGULAR SEASONS. They could not stay in first 10 both in off. efficiency and def. efficiency consistently in any year. They did not prove that they can win with defense. What I liked about the new team was that they are more flexible, deeper, tougher and way more capable of playing lock down defense to win. I guess how things look like on the paper does not immediately and always comes true in reality. I do not want to believe that the Jazz do not have the right pieces to play Jazz basketball, we have some time to figure out, I hope the whole experiment will not result in a epic failure.
However, one thing we knew for sure and expected is the defensive improvement. This new team played stellar defense throughout the first 20 something games of the season. Miraculously, their offensive efficiency as a group has not improved a lick and the worse thing is they have stopped playing any kind of defense (the worst team in defending the shot recently) and they just do not execute the plays. I wish I knew the reason. Players have eyes to see what Deron or coach implies when the offense is about the set, they have mouths and they can hear, they can communicate. Recently, I started to think about them not having sufficient IQ to figure out things, really, but I think the problem is effort and commitment. How can you lose a game before it even starts? Isn't it the way you feel, think when you see the body languages of players?
The key elements of former Jazz team spent at least 4 years together and they eventually became a phenomenal offensive team, in REGULAR SEASONS. They could not stay in first 10 both in off. efficiency and def. efficiency consistently in any year. They did not prove that they can win with defense. What I liked about the new team was that they are more flexible, deeper, tougher and way more capable of playing lock down defense to win. I guess how things look like on the paper does not immediately and always comes true in reality. I do not want to believe that the Jazz do not have the right pieces to play Jazz basketball, we have some time to figure out, I hope the whole experiment will not result in a epic failure.