I Am A Homebrewer
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DutchJazzer
Banned
or you can just attack loot and burn down local businesses. it works as has been proven recently.
in all seriousness why are the laws so intrusive?
the eu wants to race the drinking consent all over the eu. for example in germany from 14-18 depending on the drink and consent.but it wont go well for the eu.
me msyelf have been drinking a glas of wine weekly since age 7 or 8 (as far back as i can remember)
my point being why not protest it i thought that Utah was part of America!.
or do civil disobedience.
or yeah home brewing can be considered civil disobedience
DutchJazzer
Banned
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I have a very strong desire to get active in reforming Utah's liquor laws. I just want to know that I won't be wasting my time and how to organize or get into an organization that is highly driven to get it done.
I think an important point in Utah is to respect local culture in the process. I don't want to change Utah. I don't want to increase DUIs or underage drinking, both of which are very low in Utah. But I do want to legalize adulthood.
LogGrad98
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This is something about the Church that I both understand and don't understand. I understand encouraging members to be active in civil life and take an active role in governmental doings, which is what drives this sort of law in a place like Utah (witness "dry" counties in heavily Southern Baptist and other Christian areas as well), but I also don't see what this is supposed to accomplish. So you make it harder to get alcohol, all the while knowing that you and your family and friends don't drink alcohol anyway, so really you are making it harder for people who are NOT mormon (or christian, whatever), and at the same time creating reasons to resent mormons in the general community. Wow that is so counterproductive, if you ask me. Reasonable laws are, you know, reasonable. But excessive laws reek of extremism to me, and have generally been proven to really not do much to curb problems they are prima facie trying to fix.
I remember when I first saw the word "peer" I thought it was pronounced "pee-er" and meant, well, you know...
agree, except that it does provide a moral high ground for the "in" crowd to stand on and provides some additional cohesion to that group so it's serving its purpose in that way
LogGrad98
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I agree, but this is also a bizarre dichotomy. The "in-group" most definitely exists in the church (and probably most churches, who knows), but the official stance of the church is to bring the message to the world, and we are regularly encouraged to befriend our acquaintances and friends outside the church and to be a good neighbor, so to speak. Yet this flies in the face of being a good neighbor.
Learn how to fear monger or frame it in terms of economic hardship. Good luck with either, better to wait for the prudes to die off instead. Utah and the Mormon church are now in that stage of trying to prove itself normal. The recent gay rights bill for example.
I could see the economic hardship angle sort of, but it's not a strong argument imho. The fear mongering is way stronger on the other side of the issue. Politicians like Valentine claim that our low DUI and underage drinking rates are a direct result of our unique liquor restrictions. They'd act like making any changes would cause those rates to skyrocket. In reality the low rates are a direct result of the large portion of our population who abstains from drinking.
My notion was to start a movement first in the homebrewing community through the largest homebrew clubs (ZZHops, Lauter Day Brewers and O Town Hop Heads) and then appeal to bar and restaurant owners, then the tourism industry. Get key members of those communities to participate in an organization dedicated to political activism, community outreach, etc.
The message has to be about effective regulation. I feel strongly that our current liquor regulations are misguided, ineffective and a based on ignorance of alcohol and alcohol culture. With every easing of restrictions we need to combine it with greater accountability and safe guards against teen drinking and drinking and driving. I don't just want a free for all, I want to accomplish what our current nonsense laws claim to accomplish with more meaningful and effective regulation.
I believe many active LDS people also want what I want and they don't support silly and insulting liquor regulations. They want to protect their kids from drinking, they want to protect their community from drunk drivers and they want to go out for dinner or a movie without being harassed by drunks running amok or to have alcohol shoved in their faces.
This. I want these things, but I don't believe ridiculous liquor laws are the way to accomplish it. I'm more a believer in treating adults like adults. I'm also not too keen on legislating morality.
I have absolutely no problem with a complete makeover of the liquor laws. If somebody wants to get completely **** faced, there's absolutely nothing stopping them from doing it right now anyway. It just takes more beers to do it.
I was a waiter at Lonestar Steakhouse when I was in my early 20s. A person can only have one drink on the table at a time. One guy ordered another beer when he had a couple sips left of his first one. When I came back he hadn't finished his beer so I told him I couldn't set the beer down until he finished his first one. I guess he wasn't from around here because he was kind of confused. I told him "We make you drink 'em fast here in Utah." While he chugged the last little bit.
DutchJazzer
Banned
it ended nicely for u. he could have emptied the last few sips on the floor and walked out.
Yeah, I guess that was an option...
I was sort of being tongue in cheek.
These two posts are examples of why I think changes will require patience waiting for old prudes to die off.
That certainly seems like it would be the most prudent course of action.