Why is NATO attempt to recreate Cuban missile crisis inside the Europe?

[[size/HUGE] boobs [/size]]

Putin puts boot onto Swedish neck today. Tells if they join USAs begs into NATO he will point missile silos into Sweden. This is obvious security measures to make for protection of Russia. So why does Obama push? Why does America push for so many missiles pointed at everywhere?

If you know you put bombs into Sweden and Russia will retaliate with bombs enough to blow Sweden into smiths rinds in 1 days time why you still put bombs into the Swederland?

 

[Gameface]

Putin puts boot onto Swedish neck today. Tells if they join USAs begs into NATO he will point missile silos into Sweden. This is obvious security measures to make for protection of Russia. So why does Obama push? Why does America push for so many missiles pointed at everywhere?

If you know you put bombs into Sweden and Russia will retaliate with bombs enough to blow Sweden into smiths rinds in 1 days time why you still put bombs into the Swederland?

The U.S. wanted to install defensive missile systems. Defensive missile systems (missiles designed specifically to shoot down incoming missiles) have no practical offensive capability. Often they aren't even capable of engaging aircraft.

FYI, it is very difficult to point a missile silo.

 

[♪alt13]

The U.S. wanted to install defensive missile systems. Defensive missile systems (missiles designed specifically to shoot down incoming missiles) have no practical offensive capability. Often they aren't even capable of engaging aircraft.

FYI, it is very difficult to point a missile silo.

Not exactly true. A defensive missile system(that works) allows you to attack without fear of retribution. It kinda ****s up the whole mutually assured destruction thing. Russia's big fear is that we will make their current missiles obsolete. This could lead to another arms race. It probably won't.
Russia can't really afford either politically or economically to get into another arms race with the US. The US I think is betting that they can push for more nuclear disarmament if Russia knows we have the upper hand.

 

[Gameface]

Not exactly true. A defensive missile system(that works) allows you to attack without fear of retribution. It kinda ****s up the whole mutually assured destruction thing. Russia's big fear is that we will make their current missiles obsolete. This could lead to another arms race. It probably won't.
Russia can't really afford either politically or economically to get into another arms race with the US. The US I think is betting that they can push for more nuclear disarmament if Russia knows we have the upper hand.

I agree with you that defensive weapons provide an overall advantage that has an influence on your offensive capability. Since you qualified your statement based on a working defensive weapon system, I'd even go so far as to say the presence of defensive weapons provides a sense of security to your offensive forces, allows them to better prepare, better recover, and better perform their mission. As long as they don't know specifically that the defensive weapons don't work I think they gain comfort from them.

 

[LogGrad98]

What the US is looking for, we already have.

Gobert.

Best defensive weapon known to man.

 

[Stoked]

Not exactly true. A defensive missile system(that works) allows you to attack without fear of retribution. It kinda ****s up the whole mutually assured destruction thing. Russia's big fear is that we will make their current missiles obsolete. This could lead to another arms race. It probably won't.
Russia can't really afford either politically or economically to get into another arms race with the US. The US I think is betting that they can push for more nuclear disarmament if Russia knows we have the upper hand.

It already is. Russia and China are spending billions on upgrading their militaries.

Russia just announced plans for 40 new ICBMs that can deliver 6 nukes each and is now building aircraft carriers again.

China is developing a "carrier killer" missle, dramatically improving their combat aircraft and look at what they are doing in the South China Sea...

Neither are U.S. level tech or capability but they are clearly narrowing the gap. The arms race has been underway for over a year now.

It is even filtering down to countries like Philippines, Vietnam, Poland, Japan, Iran, Estonia and Lithuania.

America is developing rail guns and lasers on their navy vessels and is actively developing a 6th generation combat aircraft that has no tail and relies on lasers instead of regular armament. It will come in man and un-maned versions.

 

[LogGrad98]

No male lions on the aircraft. Gotcha.

 

[Stoked]

No male lions on the aircraft. Gotcha.

???

Also the U.S. Def. Sec. just announced the deployment of American heavy equipment (tanks, mobil artillery, APCs...) into Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Romania and Bulgaria.

 

[LogGrad98]

It already is. Russia and China are spending billions on upgrading their militaries.

Russia just announced plans for 40 new ICBMs that can deliver 6 nukes each and is now building aircraft carriers again.

China is developing a "carrier killer" missle, dramatically improving their combat aircraft and look at what they are doing in the South China Sea...

Neither are U.S. level tech or capability but they are clearly narrowing the gap. The arms race has been underway for over a year now.

It is even filtering down to countries like Philippines, Vietnam, Poland, Japan, Iran, Estonia and Lithuania.

America is developing rail guns and lasers on their navy vessels and is actively developing a 6th generation combat aircraft that has no tail and relies on lasers instead of regular armament. It will come in man and un-maned versions.

???

Also the U.S. Def. Sec. just announced the deployment of American heavy equipment (tanks, mobil artillery, APCs...) into Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Romania and Bulgaria.

Siehe oben.

 

[Siro]

At first glance, I read the title as "Why is NAOS attempt to create Cuban missle crisis". I was surprised to say the least. I know NAOS is grumpy, but Cuban missile crisis grumpy? Didn't expect that!

 

[♪alt13]

It already is. Russia and China are spending billions on upgrading their militaries.

Russia just announced plans for 40 new ICBMs that can deliver 6 nukes each and is now building aircraft carriers again.

China is developing a "carrier killer" missle, dramatically improving their combat aircraft and look at what they are doing in the South China Sea...

Neither are U.S. level tech or capability but they are clearly narrowing the gap. The arms race has been underway for over a year now.

It is even filtering down to countries like Philippines, Vietnam, Poland, Japan, Iran, Estonia and Lithuania.

America is developing rail guns and lasers on their navy vessels and is actively developing a 6th generation combat aircraft that has no tail and relies on lasers instead of regular armament. It will come in man and un-maned versions.

This is still insignificant compared to the cold war arms race, as far as the major powers are concerned. Of course Russia and China are going to upgrade their capabilities. You bring up an important point with regards to the armament of "lesser" powers. Ultimately I think this frightens the US, Russia, and China more than the arming of any of the listed 3 does. I think they recognize that there is a predictability amongst the major powers that there just isn't amongst the smaller powers/localized conflict/rogue nations. I think that they recognize that te US and Russia must drastically reduce their nuclear stockpiles, as per the nuclear arms treaty, in order to be taken seriously by the wider world. In the interim everybody is trying to strengthen their own hand.

I think

The US wants to have her cake and eat it too. The US knows that as long as it has a superior Navy and Air Force that Russia will have to rely on ICBMs to maintain it's military might. If those weapons are made obsolete Russia will be more likely to accept a nuke for nuke disarmament deal. The US wants to keep her military superiority under disarmament.

Russia wants to remain relevant enough to demand further concessions from the US.

China while it has and is apparently working on its nuclear capability is more focused on building the kind of Imperial forces that the US has and that Russia cannot afford.

 

[Stoked]

This is still insignificant compared to the cold war arms race, as far as the major powers are concerned. Of course Russia and China are going to upgrade their capabilities. You bring up an important point with regards to the armament of "lesser" powers. Ultimately I think this frightens the US, Russia, and China more than the arming of any of the listed 3 does. I think they recognize that there is a predictability amongst the major powers that there just isn't amongst the smaller powers/localized conflict/rogue nations. I think that they recognize that te US and Russia must drastically reduce their nuclear stockpiles, as per the nuclear arms treaty, in order to be taken seriously by the wider world. In the interim everybody is trying to strengthen their own hand.

I think

The US wants to have her cake and eat it too. The US knows that as long as it has a superior Navy and Air Force that Russia will have to rely on ICBMs to maintain it's military might. If those weapons are made obsolete Russia will be more likely to accept a nuke for nuke disarmament deal. The US wants to keep her military superiority under disarmament.

Russia wants to remain relevant enough to demand further concessions from the US.

China while it has and is apparently working on its nuclear capability is more focused on building the kind of Imperial forces that the US has and that Russia cannot afford.

I'd agree that it is not at a level of the cold war arms race but things are clearly heating up in that direction. The scary thing to me that is new and could take this to a cold war or higher level is the emerging cooperation between Russia and China. They have signed huge energy deals, China bought a Russian made air craft carrier (no where near American level and cannot even launch aircraft yet)...now the two sides are working on inter-nation high speed railways and Russia selling China advanced fighter aircraft. Russia recently sent their navy into the South China Sea for naval war drills with China as a show of support in that region.

As for the nuclear arms treaties, Russia (from what I can gather) has all but abandoned their nuclear arms deals. They are now upgrading and increasing their nuclear arms. America has officially charged them with breaking the treaty. Russia is openly contemplating placing nuclear ICBMs in Kaliningrad on the west of the Blatic NATO states.

If China and Russia continue to unite and become tru allies then America could be in trouble.

 

[♪alt13]

I'd agree that it is not at a level of the cold war arms race but things are clearly heating up in that direction. The scary thing to me that is new and could take this to a cold war or higher level is the emerging cooperation between Russia and China. They have signed huge energy deals, China bought a Russian made air craft carrier (no where near American level and cannot even launch aircraft yet)...now the two sides are working on inter-nation high speed railways and Russia selling China advanced fighter aircraft. Russia recently sent their navy into the South China Sea for naval war drills with China as a show of support in that region.

As for the nuclear arms treaties, Russia (from what I can gather) has all but abandoned their nuclear arms deals. They are now upgrading and increasing their nuclear arms. America has officially charged them with breaking the treaty. Russia is openly contemplating placing nuclear ICBMs in Kaliningrad on the west of the Blatic NATO states.

If China and Russia continue to unite and become tru allies then America could be in trouble.

In the long run I find that to be doubtful. Russia has a much greater risk of effectively losing territory to China than any risk it has with the US. Much of Russia's territory is non Russian. Many territories have been pushing for greater autonomy. Han Chinese have been immigrating into Eastern Russia. The Chinese have a recent history of pursuing "historic" territorial claims. Russia has forfeited the high ground with it's actions in eastern europe.

This all adds up to a future of disputes with China. What happens when Eastern parts of Russia seek independence or want to become part of China? I think Putin is being delusional and eventually Russia looks to make friends with the west not the east.

 

[Stoked]

In the long run I find that to be doubtful. Russia has a much greater risk of effectively losing territory to China than any risk it has with the US. Much of Russia's territory is non Russian. Many territories have been pushing for greater autonomy. Han Chinese have been immigrating into Eastern Russia. The Chinese have a recent history of pursuing "historic" territorial claims. Russia has forfeited the high ground with it's actions in eastern europe.

This all adds up to a future of disputes with China. What happens when Eastern parts of Russia seek independence or want to become part of China? I think Putin is being delusional and eventually Russia looks to make friends with the west not the east.

That is a very plausible scenario. I openly admit that.

Another, and the one that worries me, is that China's ambition in southern Asia and the East and South China seas along with Russias ambitions in eastern europe and the artic leave each country looking for a way to counter balance that. It is already shown that they are starting to consider each other as a support in that area.

Some signs:

- China blocking (in addition to Russia) UN statments on Ukraine
- Russia joining Chinese naval excersizes in the South China sea
- Huge NG energy deal signed between Russia and China
- Military deals between the two for equipment and expertise
- High speed rail and other economic ties

I guess it will all come down to how hard the tension each of them faces with America and her allies (Blatic states, NATO, Japan, Philippines, Australia...). If it continues to escalate and they are pushed harder and harder I could see them deciding that it is a greater threat not to embrace each other then it is to formly ally themselves.

If those two ally formally I can think of another dozen or so countries that would clamor to join (Cuba, N. Korea, Iran, Cambodia, Belarus...)

 

[Gameface]

The U.S. would be in what kind of trouble? We wouldn't be able to strong-arm everyone all the time? Oh the horror!

 

[LogGrad98]

I don't see much changing to be honest. I am with gf, but not even that far. I think we would still be able to do what we wanted. I just do not see any superpower today initiating nuclear war. Everyone knows where that ends up. I just cannot see anything along those lines happening at all.

 

[♪alt13]

I don't see much changing to be honest. I am with gf, but not even that far. I think we would still be able to do what we wanted. I just do not see any superpower today initiating nuclear war. Everyone knows where that ends up. I just cannot see anything along those lines happening at all.

It provides enough of a deterrent that we would pretty much never invade Russia though. How many nations can say they have an ace up their sleeve to keep the US from invading and instituting regime change? This is why Iran wants them.

 

[LogGrad98]

It provides enough of a deterrent that we would pretty much never invade Russia though. How many nations can say they have an ace up their sleeve to keep the US from invading and instituting regime change? This is why Iran wants them.

To me that is so far fetched to be ludicrous. We are not empire building. We do not regularly invade countries to institute regime change. I see this as nothing to be defending against. It is a ridiculous reason for armament on this scale.

 

[♪alt13]

To me that is so far fetched to be ludicrous. We are not empire building. We do not regularly invade countries to institute regime change. I see this as nothing to be defending against. It is a ridiculous reason for armament on this scale.

Pakistan, Iraq, Libya. Yeah we use our forces to pursue regime change often enough for the leaders of Iran to be worried.

 

[LogGrad98]

Iran or Russia? I was talking about Russia and the chance of nuclear war.