What's new
By:

I need some clarifcation and the chance to vent a little bit

H

HighlandHomie

Well-Known Member
I've seen countless posters making sweeping statements on players about performance in Summer League. I can't tell if the people pissing all over Trey Lyles' performances, and unhappy with the pick in general, are being sarcastic/facetious. Are you? Please clarify.

Let's put it this way - if you think Lyles was the wrong pick, you're an idiot. If you think Lyles isn't a good shooter because of Summer League, you're an idiot. If you conclude anything about Lyles based on Summer League, you're an idiot.

Of course he is not a finished product at 19, and will have deficiencies very early on on defense. But he's got an extremely unique skill set for his size and that versatility is something we don't have on our roster. He will give Coach Snyder so much flexibility with the rotation. I saw someone in another thread compare his progression to Favors' but they're totally different players with totally different skills. Favors improvement over his career since he got in the NBA has been great. But we can't use him as a measuring stick for Lyles because they're effectively different positions (despite both being listed as bigs). I also saw someone compare Lyles to Trey Burke because he's shot poorly... That's also misguided and downright asinine.

Even if Lyles tore up Summer League and averaged 40 a game, I'd still say temper expectations because Summer League is so misleading. Really the only thing to be taken from Summer League is if a guy can't hang at all physically in the Summer League, than there is no chance they can do well in the NBA. Lyles obviously needs to get stronger, but he's not in over his head in that department by any means. Lastly, he's got little pressure on him to produce a ton this coming season. I think he's a stud.

There are so many reasons to be overjoyed with the Jazz right now based on the way we finished the last portion of the season. I am most intrigued at seeing how the rotation shakes out regarding Burks and Hood (what an amazing problem to have!!!!!!!!!!! I still have nightmares of Gordan GiriSuck as our starting 2 guard), among the countless positives and reasons for optimism.

Finally, it seems like the final roster spot will come down to Cotton, Cooley or Chris Johnson...I think all three can be full-time NBA players (no D-League), so I hope they catch on somewhere else if it's not here. I'm disappointed Joe Ingles is going to take a roster spot from one of them solely to appease they need to keep Exum comfortable. Ingles is not an NBA player. That said, I'm very excited about Dante's future so if he continues to progress towards an All-Star than it'll be worth it.
 
So basically you are saying that anyone who disagrees with you is an idiot.

Gotcha.
 
Ingles is good, proven in Australian league, and proven last year in NBA. Let the new guys earn it. Plus he's glued this team together in the locker room, everyone loves him. Not just likes, LOVES!!!
Buy in, everyone else on the team has.

Trey is 19, as far as I understand the brain is fully developed (personality and habits) around age 25, still plenty of time for QS to fine tune his game (strategy, habits, shooting). What summer league has shown is his natural game, unaltered. He did play 3 when he supposedly was meant to be a 4. Now DL/QS know what they have to build on.
 
HighlandHomie said:
I've seen countless posters making sweeping statements on players about performance in Summer League. I can't tell if the people pissing all over Trey Lyles' performances, and unhappy with the pick in general, are being sarcastic/facetious. Are you? Please clarify.

Let's put it this way - if you think Lyles was the wrong pick, you're an idiot. If you think Lyles isn't a good shooter because of Summer League, you're an idiot. If you conclude anything about Lyles based on Summer League, you're an idiot.

Of course he is not a finished product at 19, and will have deficiencies very early on on defense. But he's got an extremely unique skill set for his size and that versatility is something we don't have on our roster. He will give Coach Snyder so much flexibility with the rotation. I saw someone in another thread compare his progression to Favors' but they're totally different players with totally different skills. Favors improvement over his career since he got in the NBA has been great. But we can't use him as a measuring stick for Lyles because they're effectively different positions (despite both being listed as bigs). I also saw someone compare Lyles to Trey Burke because he's shot poorly... That's also misguided and downright asinine.

Even if Lyles tore up Summer League and averaged 40 a game, I'd still say temper expectations because Summer League is so misleading. Really the only thing to be taken from Summer League is if a guy can't hang at all physically in the Summer League, than there is no chance they can do well in the NBA. Lyles obviously needs to get stronger, but he's not in over his head in that department by any means. Lastly, he's got little pressure on him to produce a ton this coming season. I think he's a stud.

There are so many reasons to be overjoyed with the Jazz right now based on the way we finished the last portion of the season. I am most intrigued at seeing how the rotation shakes out regarding Burks and Hood (what an amazing problem to have!!!!!!!!!!! I still have nightmares of Gordan GiriSuck as our starting 2 guard), among the countless positives and reasons for optimism.

Finally, it seems like the final roster spot will come down to Cotton, Cooley or Chris Johnson...I think all three can be full-time NBA players (no D-League), so I hope they catch on somewhere else if it's not here. I'm disappointed Joe Ingles is going to take a roster spot from one of them solely to appease they need to keep Exum comfortable. Ingles is not an NBA player. That said, I'm very excited about Dante's future so if he continues to progress towards an All-Star than it'll be worth it.
Click to expand...
Joe Ingles is far better right now than all of Cotton, Cooley, and Chris Johnson. Probably better than Lyles, Millsap, Neto, Pleiss, and Burke as well. Why you singled out one of our decent players is baffling to me.
 
Highland man you really are bothered by the interwebs. Of course that is what the internet is for. Knee jerk overeactions right? I think its fair to question the pick.
His numbers in college werent stellar (yes i know his role was limited). We passed on a shooter, and a shooting energy big who may have been better fits. Of course people are going to be frustated then when he doesnt come out and blow out the competition in SL. Thats the nature of the beast.
 
HH:

Good post, except you're way off base about Ingles. He may not be the most athletic guy in the NBA, but he's probably the smartest player on the Jazz. Not to compare him with Larry Bird, but on a lower level similar in that Bird was not very athletic either but made up for it by being such a smart player. Bird also had unparalleled skills, but it was his smarts that put him above the rest.
 
I am not knee jerking this. I don't hate lyles. I just don't understand why we drafted him and I was not easy to switch over like most everyone on this board and buy into buzzword like Jazz DNA and Draymond green PF skills. He doesn't play D or rebound or shoot well at all. He should be at least adequate at one of the se right? There were better options and idiots would not at least acknowledge this!
 
Eenie-Meenie said:
HH:

Good post, except you're way off base about Ingles. He may not be the most athletic guy in the NBA, but he's probably the smartest player on the Jazz. Not to compare him with Larry Bird, but on a lower level similar in that Bird was not very athletic either but made up for it by being such a smart player. Bird also had unparalleled skills, but it was his smarts that put him above the rest.
Click to expand...

I'm sure Joe is a great locker room guy and has a great understanding of the game. But he got extended minutes last year and wasn't really a good knockdown shooter, and is really limited offensively/defensively. He was serviceable for us by necessity because of his bball IQ and ability to keep the ball moving in Quin's offense. But as Hood got back from injury and started to emerge, Ingles' minutes dipped drastically. I honestly doubt he gets much, if any, playing time this season if we're fully healthy.
 
ThaPhunkPhenomenon said:
I am not knee jerking this. I don't hate lyles. I just don't understand why we drafted him and I was not easy to switch over like most everyone on this board and buy into buzzword like Jazz DNA and Draymond green PF skills. He doesn't play D or rebound or shoot well at all. He should be at least adequate at one of the se right? There were better options and idiots would not at least acknowledge this!
Click to expand...

Becuase that is opinion based and they don't share your opinion.

But you already knew this and are only playing up your persona.
 
Ingles is a decent sub so you're an idiot because I disagree with you. Joe is basically what we hope Trey will be in the short term: high BBIQ, great passer who sets up teammates and a credible shooter. Obviously Lyles has a much higher ceiling than a 5th wing, but he has a lot of work to do before he can be even a serviceable backup PF. Right now he can't shoot and he's a terrible defender. I didn't like (understatement) the Lyles pick because of concerns about his shooting and passivity. I still have the same concerns. I don't place much value on SL stats but nothing he's done has changed my opinion. I still think there were better players available.
 
Stoked said:
Becuase that is opinion based and they don't share your opinion.

But you already knew this and are only playing up your persona.
Click to expand...

On draft night and the day after it was 99 percent of the board opinion. Then DL say magic words"Jazz DNA". Locke come with stats that say Lyle is OMG!! And 95 percent of board changes there mind and says Yeah?
 
HighlandHomie said:
I'm sure Joe is a great locker room guy and has a great understanding of the game. But he got extended minutes last year and wasn't really a good knockdown shooter, and is really limited offensively/defensively. He was serviceable for us by necessity because of his bball IQ and ability to keep the ball moving in Quin's offense. But as Hood got back from injury and started to emerge, Ingles' minutes dipped drastically. I honestly doubt he gets much, if any, playing time this season if we're fully healthy.
Click to expand...

You're right, to some degree, but I still think you're underrating Ingles. No way are the Summer League guys better than him at this point.
 
Respectfully disagree with HH about Ingles. I'm glad he'll be back, and I don't think the FO just re-signed him for Exum's sake. I think Exum would do fine without Joe here. I give Dante more credit than to think he needs another Aussie on the team to be comfortable. But I also think Joe is one of those "glue" guys who's a good fit both basketball-wise and locker-room-wise. He's scrappy but also has ability to compliment it. Plus, I hope Hood will be healthy this year, but if he spends some time injured, we'll need the depth Ingles provides.
 
gregbroncs said:
Joe Ingles is far better right now than all of Cotton, Cooley, and Chris Johnson. Probably better than Lyles, Millsap, Neto, Pleiss, and Burke as well. Why you singled out one of our decent players is baffling to me.
Click to expand...
Apparently we are idiots according to the OP.
HighlandHomie said:
I'm sure Joe is a great locker room guy and has a great understanding of the game. But he got extended minutes last year and wasn't really a good knockdown shooter, and is really limited offensively/defensively. He was serviceable for us by necessity because of his bball IQ and ability to keep the ball moving in Quin's offense. But as Hood got back from injury and started to emerge, Ingles' minutes dipped drastically. I honestly doubt he gets much, if any, playing time this season if we're fully healthy.
Click to expand...

U do realize that after the allstar break Ingles shot over 40% from three, right? Also Ingles was kind of an energizer type of player. Played solid defense and hustled on every play. Did u even watch any games. For a jazz fan u seem utterly clueless as to what happened with the Jazz even at the end of the season was still a big part of the rotation. He's a good role player. Get over it. Idiot!
 
If you know that Lyles was the correct pick 100% then you are probably an idiot since no one knows if he was the right pick. Jazz think he was the right pick and will work out better than the players picked after him but they dont know that. No one will know for at least a few years.
 
HighlandHomie said:
I'm sure Joe is a great locker room guy and has a great understanding of the game. But he got extended minutes last year and wasn't really a good knockdown shooter, and is really limited offensively/defensively. He was serviceable for us by necessity because of his bball IQ and ability to keep the ball moving in Quin's offense. But as Hood got back from injury and started to emerge, Ingles' minutes dipped drastically. I honestly doubt he gets much, if any, playing time this season if we're fully healthy.
Click to expand...
That may be true. But he's not stealing a roster spot from anybody. He's better than a good chunk of the guys on the roster. I expect him to be in the rotation this year even if it's 8-12 MPG. Because there is nobody else on the roster to take those minutes from him. He's our 4th wing, he's better than Millsap and Johnson. So he'll get minutes.
.
Also you said he's not an NBA player. Well not only is he but he's actually a pretty good NBA player.
 
Joe Ingles is a good player and a great teammate. Back away from the bong.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page
Back
Top