Sorry gun advocates, you'll just have to suck it up

[Gameface]

I think step one, in a nation where mostly unfettered access to firearms is the reality, is to have mandatory firearm education taught in schools. Focusing on the safe handling and storage of firearms, outlining state specific rules regarding the legal use of a firearm for self defense, making clear when the use of a firearm does not fall under self defense, and exposing students to the consequences of firearm violence.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Gangs exist in order to control the illegal drug market. They cannot seek legal recourse vs their rival drug gangs so they use violence to solve their issues.

Once again, the unintended consequences of the drug war shows its head.

Ending the drug war would be a major step in the right direction in regard to gun violence.

And how will that address mass shootings? Need I remind you of this trend? Seems like it:

Legalizing weed won't address this.

 

[Siro]

Are you seriously arguing for anarchy as a form of government?

Maybe you just haven't taken the time to process the info. It is so much info after all...

 

[Jamezz]

Dude, in the biggest pro marijuana legalization guy there is and I agree with most all of your post..... Except the end of it.
I'm quite certain that consumption would go up. I know myself and many others who would start using pot, my father in law has cancer and he has said that if it were legal here that he would use it (he is a Mormon btw), more people would begin to understand how great it is and would want to reap the benefits of using it. (Sleeping better, helping with depression and anxiety, and simply having a good time)

I stand corrected, good consumption would go up so yes, overall there would be more consumption. I didn't word my previous post right. In any event the fact that it's prohibited is causing the same effect than the alcohol prohibition caused. The appearance of mafias... the government being one of them.

 

[Deleted member 848]

That wouldn't bother [most] gun owners one bit. In fact we would probably welcome it, especially if you made it part of gradeschool curriculum . The problem is you are putting up a straw man argument here. Gun safety is inherent in gun ownership. Think about it, Rev. Do you think parents like myself don't want our children to understand firearm safety? This is inherent to gun society. It's practically the first thing that comes out of a gun owner's mouth when teaching the young or those who they are not sure of knowing gun safety.

If I handed my gun to you I would chamber it, dry fire, and set the safety if that gun allowed with an empty chamber. If I handed my gun to Gameface I would chamber it, dry fire, and set the safety if that gun allowed for it. I don't know if you know how to handle guns. I do know Gameface is very knowledgeable about guns. I would treat you both the exact same, however, because gun safety is an inherent part of gun culture.

another inherent part of gun culture seems to be spiking rates of mass shootings, apparently.

 

[gandalfe]

I don't see a pretty chart created, but if you look up homicides per 100,000 people, America sits around 5. The highest other country on that list that I saw was like 1.6

Total deaths by intentional homicide rate for the US per 100,000 is 4.6, just about the middle of the pack, ranked 111th out of 218. Per the chart here

 

[fishonjazz]

Legit point.

We just need to take a look at the types of guns, and types weed we have out there. Do we really need thc candy,
and high potent keef that fries the mind? Where do we draw the line? Can we have rifles and hand guns, but leave out assault rifles? Can
we let citizens have uzis, and grenade launchers? How much does one need to protect themselves?

This is a good point.

Why isn't there a huge black market for hand grenades and rocket launchers in this county?

From what I hear, if you make something illegal then suddenly all the criminals have it and cartels push it into the usa.

I have not seen allot of news stories of people blowing **** up with rocket launchers and hand grenades. Why not?

 

[Deleted member 848]

Maybe you just haven't taken the time to process the info. It is so much info after all...

process the info needs to become a Jazzfanz-ism. Literally LOLd when I read that post.

 

[Harambe]

Compare small states like Utah to small countries of Europe. The problem isn't guns, or some America hating resentment that Dalamon and Cockroach promote ad nauseum (why does Dalamon even care what Americans do with their own lives? Liberal's need to control others).

It's cultural issues but liberals never want to address that because it wouldn't suit there agenda. That's why they are avoiding all rational discourse in this thread and push shock statistics instead. Shock journalism is the only thing liberals have going for them, but as always, rationality will win out the day as it has with gun rights.

This, too, proves FOXNEWS just sticks his head in the sand and believes only what he wants. Not once did I been not for doing other things to fix the issue; it's just easier for him to think whatever I'm doing/saying is the exact opposite of what he's doing and saying. Not once did I say take away all guns.

Get your **** together foxy.

 

[fishonjazz]

I think step one, in a nation where mostly unfettered access to firearms is the reality, is to have mandatory firearm education taught in schools. Focusing on the safe handling and storage of firearms, outlining state specific rules regarding the legal use of a firearm for self defense, making clear when the use of a firearm does not fall under self defense, and exposing students to the consequences of firearm violence.

I think every single person in the country agrees with this

 

[Jamezz]

Dala

#ProcessTheInfo
Join the club, you can do it.

 

[Gameface]

And how will that address mass shootings? Need I remind you of this trend? Seems like it:

Legalizing weed won't address this.

I think mass shootings is one of the smallest issues when it comes to gun violence. The huge spike shows just over 100 mass shooting deaths. While tragic, that's not the low hanging fruit that will lead to an overall decrease in gun violence.

 

[Deleted member 848]

I think every single person in the country agrees with this

it begs the question: should unfettered access to firearms be the reality? What are the tangible gains of a society with that many guns?

 

[Revolution 9]

That wouldn't bother [most] gun owners one bit. In fact we would probably welcome it, especially if you made it part of gradeschool curriculum . The problem is you are putting up a straw man argument here. Gun safety is inherent in gun ownership. Think about it, Rev. Do you think parents like myself don't want our children to understand firearm safety? This is inherent to gun society. It's practically the first thing that comes out of a gun owner's mouth when teaching the young or those who they are not sure of knowing gun safety.

If I handed my gun to you I would chamber it, dry fire, and set the safety if that gun allowed with an empty chamber. If I handed my gun to Gameface I would chamber it, dry fire, and set the safety if that gun allowed for it. I don't know if you know how to handle guns. I do know Gameface is very knowledgeable about guns. I would treat you both the exact same, however, because gun safety is an inherent part of gun culture.

"Do you think parents like myself don't want our children to understand firearm safety?" Do you honestly think I dont think that? Why on earth would that even enter your brain. I dont think everyone
is against my arguments. I think we are A LOT closer to compromise than we realize. Of course I think you want your children to understand firearm safety.

I think the training would be in part to catch, and help lift up the people that dont have the knowledge you have. This whole training idea only handles part of the problem. I think its geared at helping
the accidental gun deaths, and also the people protecting themselves in a gun fight.

I dont love guns. I dont want to have one in my house, but wouldnt be completely against it. I do want the gun owners out there to be better trained because they arent going away, nor do I want them to.

Is it ok to talk about where the draw the type of line in guns we sell? Thats all Im doing, and I think I'm being very fair in this debate. Its healthy to talk this out right?

 

[Gameface]

This is a good point.

Why isn't there a huge black market for hand grenades and rocket launchers in this county?

From what I hear, if you make something illegal then suddenly all the criminals have it and cartels push it into the usa.

I have not seen allot of news stories of people blowing **** up with rocket launchers and hand grenades. Why not?

Because those weapons are not practical. They do not accomplish what most gun wielders want to accomplish.

 

[Jamezz]

And how will that address mass shootings? Need I remind you of this trend? Seems like it:

Legalizing weed won't address this.

Also, some of those events are suspicious of being staged, and if not, exploited to feed the anti-gun agenda.

Columbine lol, the event that Fat ******* exploited like no other. I hope Michael Moore is not who you look up to when processing info.

 

[Harambe]

Total deaths by intentional homicide rate for the US per 100,000 is 4.6, just about the middle of the pack, ranked 111th out of 218. Per the chart here

Data from world bank puts it at 5

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5

 

[Siro]

I think mass shootings is one of the smallest issues when it comes to gun violence. The huge spike shows just over 100 mass shooting deaths. While tragic, that's not the low hanging fruit that will lead to an overall decrease in gun violence.

It scares people though. Mass shootings get a lot of publicity and get people worked up. I think they have a disproportionate effect on public psyche and perceptions, and I believe there might, therefore, be a disproportionate benefit to their reduction. Possibly.

 

[Jamezz]

Data from world bank puts it at 5

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5

I distrust any agency with the word 'world' in it.

 

[franklin]

The Disarming of the population would certainly lower the rate of gun violence. But you're disregarding a lot of what I've already said in this thread. I don't think it would be a solution to the high crime rate since it is not the cause of it. Like you said, Utah is a "gun state", but we have a low crime rate. I also agree that gang violence is a major issue. If we take gang-related murders into account, then the US murder rate is merely 2-3 times that of the rest of the developed world. But a case for gun control can be made. For one, it would allow communities that are plagued by gun violence (poor black for example) more of an opportunity to rebuild and improve. Right now, the ubiquity of guns make such places extremely dangerous for everyone, including the police.

I'm not disregarding anything you've said, you know me better than that. I disagree with your speculation that removing guns from crime-ridden areas will afford them an opportunity to rebuild and improve. That is an irrationally optimistic assumption that disregards the underlying problems plaguing poor neighborhoods.

Secondly, on a philosophical level, I do not think the mentality that guns serve as a guarantee against government intrusion is a healthy one to assume in a modern, democratic, liberal society.

But I am just trying to add to the debate, because there SHOULD be a debate. I don't know why people on both sides insist on making their pet issues sacred.

I agree with you fully, as I think most posters on this site have in the past. I don't think many are worried about the philosophical issue of tyranny in western culture. However, there are other philosophical issues regarding gun ownership that are completely ignored by the anti-gun crowd.

I would also agree that something must be done about the mass shootings in the USA. They are tragic and something will be done sooner or later. I believe the republicans will lead the charge here, as a) democrats are untrustworthy to gun owners and b) democrats will pressure republicans in power to do something on the issue or lose votes.

I also think something must be done about the gross negligence leading to vehicular deaths. Mass shootings are tragic. Vehicular homicide is tragic. Why do we focus so much on the one we cannot control while nonchalantly dealing with the one we easily could?