Sorry gun advocates, you'll just have to suck it up

[franklin]

I'm not sure if this meets your requirements, and

https://articles.chicagotribune.com/2014-01-07/news/chi-citys-gun-ordinance-ruled-unconstitutional-by-federal-judge-20140106_1_gun-ordinance-gun-rights-advocates-gun-ranges

That seems to be an outright violation of the 2nd Amendment rather than a community effort to curb/control gun violence.

I'm also not sure what you mean by a "spillover" argument, but here goes:

This paragraph:



“Every year Chicago police recover more illegal guns than officers in any city in the country, a factor of lax federal laws as well as lax laws in Illinois and surrounding states related to straw purchasing and the transfer of guns,” the city's statement said. “We need stronger gun safety laws, not increased access to firearms within the city.”

 

[DutchJazzer]

Actually people might be very surprised. On a Navy base the only people allowed to be armed are the military police (called Masters-At-Arms, in the Navy, or MAs for short). I had a friend who lived on the ship and he and I would go shooting regularly. He had to declare that he had a gun at the gate, then wait, then hand the gun over to the MAs, who would then escort him to the ship, where they would inform the Officer of the Deck that he had a gun, who would then get the shipboard MAs to take possession of the gun and escort him to the ships armory where a gunners mate would check the gun into the armory. Reverse the process to get the gun off base so we could go to the range.

exactly. but they cant win the all shootings happened at gun free zones./
so now they decale navy bases gun zones.
even declaring when a shooter brings in a gun its not a gun free zone

 

[DutchJazzer]

I'll reply to the bolded one. To start it off at least.

Gangs: Part of this comes from several different areas itself. Uninvolved parents, limited economic opportunity/status, lack of a good education... work on those things and the gangs will find that their potential recruits start drying up. Give many of these kids a viable alternative to gangs.

uninvolved parents could be a problem of single parent academic. your parents can give you a good education to suplement the crappy school educations.
simple things parents can do is to read to their child, studies have shown reading a bedtime story to a child has a positive effect on their education.

bedtime stories have a profound effect on kid, if you chose the right stories. they are a secret weapon in an upbringing. in bedtime stories kids learn about mroals consequences and other stuff.

this is not realy slovable by the government!

 

[Dr. Jones]

Of course the only female poster on Jazzfanz turns out to be the smartest poster here. Go figure.

Sexist. Srsly.

 

[DutchJazzer]

Although many stated that mandatory firearm education is a no brainer in a society with so many guns and the right to own them enshrined in the Constitution, there is no mandatory firearm education in schools. And I do believe there would be very significant objections to such mandatory education. Kids are getting expelled for making finger guns.

But in my opinion that is a very important first step.

i agree, the liberals would throw a hissyfit. but hey its normal to teach children then if your a woman you should mutilate your penis. and throw it in the trash.
never tought of teaching it in school. because i always thought this at home

 

[DutchJazzer]

Part of the trouble is that when local communities enact gun restrictions that are heavily supported within the local community, the NRA has come in and sued to get those restrictions overturned on the basis of violating 2nd amendment "rights"

sounds exaclty like the freedom from religion group! hahaha so you got libtards and constard all around

 

[moevillini]

That seems to be an outright violation of the 2nd Amendment rather than a community effort to curb/control gun violence.


This paragraph:

“Every year Chicago police recover more illegal guns than officers in any city in the country, a factor of lax federal laws as well as lax laws in Illinois and surrounding states related to straw purchasing and the transfer of guns,” the city's statement said. “We need stronger gun safety laws, not increased access to firearms within the city.”

banning gun sales is not the same thing as banning guns - - people can possess firearms - - so I would not necessarily interpret this as a 2nd amendment violation

but I do see the other side of the argument as well, since it's limiting access.
It's the other side of the Voter ID regulations that have been promoted in some circles but that others feel are too burdensome. Funny how the definition of what's burdensome changes depending on the situation and which side you're on!


regarding the spillover effect - - if it's against the law to tighten the laws, then the laws will be lax. I thought that might be what meant in your post, but the context of your post made it sound like something else.

I don't know enough about gun laws in Illinois, yet alone in other states. Do some states have stricter laws than others?

 

[franklin]

banning gun sales is not the same thing as banning guns - - people can possess firearms - - so I would not necessarily interpret this as a 2nd amendment violation

but I do see the other side of the argument as well, since it's limiting access.
It's the other side of the Voter ID regulations that have been promoted in some circles but that others feel are too burdensome. Funny how the definition of what's burdensome changes depending on the situation and which side you're on!


regarding the spillover effect - - if it's against the law to tighten the laws, then the laws will be lax. I thought that might be what meant in your post, but the context of your post made it sound like something else.

I don't know enough about gun laws in Illinois, yet alone in other states. Do some states have stricter laws than others?

I was offering up a federalists stance for your side to take up. I'm not becoming your next Ain't Moe so I'll leave the rest alone

 

[♪alt13]

.

.

So we, as a society, underfunded black education while consistently failing to hire blacks who were qualified, used the justice system to hand out disproportionately stiff sentences while failing to protect black neighborhoods, and made it all but impossible for law abiding blacks to carry a weapon. What could possibly go wrong? Gun control in America is racist. It turns my stomach when I hear people talk about the different realities of guns in urban and rural America. They seem to mean white people should have guns but black people shouldn't.

Both Canada and Mexico have strict gun control. So would stronger gun control reduce the American homicide rate to Canadian levels(1.44) or Mexican levels(21.5)? Well, is the socioeconomic situation of American blacks closer to that of Canadians or Mexicans? What happened when guns were banned in places like Chicago?

The number one thing that I get from US homicide rates isn't that guns are evil, it's that it still really, really, really sucks to be black in America.

 

[Gameface]

I don't know enough about gun laws in Illinois, yet alone in other states. Do some states have stricter laws than others?

Holy crap! Illinois is one of the very most strict states. Utah and Texas are probably up there with the least restrictive.

I lived in California, so I'll briefly compare and contrast a gun purchase in California compared to Utah. Tomorrow...

 

[Gameface]

.

.

So we, as a society, underfunded black education while consistently failing to hire blacks who were qualified, used the justice system to hand out disproportionately stiff sentences while failing to protect black neighborhoods, and made it all but impossible for law abiding blacks to carry a weapon. What could possibly go wrong? Gun control in America is racist. It turns my stomach when I hear people talk about the different realities of guns in urban and rural America. They seem to mean white people should have guns but black people shouldn't.

Both Canada and Mexico have strict gun control. So would stronger gun control reduce the American homicide rate to Canadian levels(1.44) or Mexican levels(21.5)? Well, is the socioeconomic situation of American blacks closer to that of Canadians or Mexicans? What happened when guns were banned in places like Chicago?

The number one thing that I get from US homicide rates isn't that guns are evil, it's that it still really, really, really sucks to be black in America.

Overall I agree with what you've said.

Still, there is a difference in reality between urban America and rural America. I'd be happy to discuss why this is a racial issue as well as why this is not a genetic issue. There is a different reality between poverty in a rural community compared to poverty in an urban community.

 

[♪alt13]

Overall I agree with what you've said.

Still, there is a difference in reality between urban America and Rural America. I'd be happy to discuss why this is a racial issue as well as why this is not a genetic issue. There is a different reality between poverty in a rural community compared to poverty in an urban community.

I don't think it's genetic. I think it's a result of societal racism not genetic ancestry.

 

[Gameface]

I don't think it's genetic. I think it's a result of societal racism not genetic ancestry.

Yeah, so can your stomach stop turning then? Since we agree on the cause?

 

[DutchJazzer]

Time to end race baiting and burn all race cards! why is say it in this thread. HH started this thread because of the virginia shooting.

and this dude seemed to be accusing everybody of racism!

 

[DutchJazzer]

why do people wanna take away someones right to self defense?

 

[fishonjazz]

exactly. but they cant win the all shootings happened at gun free zones./
so now they decale navy bases gun zones.
even declaring when a shooter brings in a gun its not a gun free zone

Your point is that shooters always pick places where they think there won't be any guns. (Movie theaters, schools, etc)

A navy base is a location that a shooter is probably quite certain that will have guns on the premises (armed guards) so in that particular case the fact that the shooter pretty much knew guns would be there did not deter the shooter from carrying out the attack

 

[DutchJazzer]

Your point is that shooters always pick places where they think there won't be any guns. (Movie theaters, schools, etc)

A navy base is a location that a shooter is probably quite certain that well have guns on the premises (armed guards) so in that particular case the fact that the shooter pretty much knew guns would be there did not deter the shooter from carrying out the attack

i can go further on that point, and go into motivation. the navy base shooters had other motives then mall/school shooter.

but imho a navy base is a gun free zone. post Chattanooga it is different some bases took it in own hands in defiance of this gun free navy base horsecrap!

 

[DutchJazzer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFwQGUl9tEY

the likes vs dislikes though 21-82

 

[DutchJazzer]

btw 1 strong reason why there should be guns in a free republic. is civilians must be equally protected in relation to leaders.

if all leaders and elite could afford armed guards. you get a different clas of peopple.
those who can have armed guards and those who dont.

just like this tyranny/monarchy the queen is protected by guns. other politicians are protected by gun.
regular peasants i mean subject or citizens or whatever have no right to self defense!

 

[Qman]

Your point is that shooters always pick places where they think there won't be any guns. (Movie theaters, schools, etc)

A navy base is a location that a shooter is probably quite certain that will have guns on the premises (armed guards) so in that particular case the fact that the shooter pretty much knew guns would be there did not deter the shooter from carrying out the attack

In a similar vein schools in Israel had this problem with fanatics coming into their schools and shooting up their children. So the grandpa's and grandma's organized the PTO and most of them were armed. The fanatics didn't view getting shot up by grandma as a glorious death and decided to seek softer targets. The key was concealed carry folk being distributed in unpredictable groups.

The armed guards at a bank or naval base or potentially a school would be ineffective if they are not carrying concealed.