Sorry gun advocates, you'll just have to suck it up

[Gameface]

I don't think it's genetic. I think it's a result of societal racism not genetic ancestry.

Yeah, so can your stomach stop turning then? Since we agree on the cause?

 

[DutchJazzer]

Time to end race baiting and burn all race cards! why is say it in this thread. HH started this thread because of the virginia shooting.

and this dude seemed to be accusing everybody of racism!

 

[DutchJazzer]

why do people wanna take away someones right to self defense?

 

[fishonjazz]

exactly. but they cant win the all shootings happened at gun free zones./
so now they decale navy bases gun zones.
even declaring when a shooter brings in a gun its not a gun free zone

Your point is that shooters always pick places where they think there won't be any guns. (Movie theaters, schools, etc)

A navy base is a location that a shooter is probably quite certain that will have guns on the premises (armed guards) so in that particular case the fact that the shooter pretty much knew guns would be there did not deter the shooter from carrying out the attack

 

[DutchJazzer]

Your point is that shooters always pick places where they think there won't be any guns. (Movie theaters, schools, etc)

A navy base is a location that a shooter is probably quite certain that well have guns on the premises (armed guards) so in that particular case the fact that the shooter pretty much knew guns would be there did not deter the shooter from carrying out the attack

i can go further on that point, and go into motivation. the navy base shooters had other motives then mall/school shooter.

but imho a navy base is a gun free zone. post Chattanooga it is different some bases took it in own hands in defiance of this gun free navy base horsecrap!

 

[DutchJazzer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFwQGUl9tEY

the likes vs dislikes though 21-82

 

[DutchJazzer]

btw 1 strong reason why there should be guns in a free republic. is civilians must be equally protected in relation to leaders.

if all leaders and elite could afford armed guards. you get a different clas of peopple.
those who can have armed guards and those who dont.

just like this tyranny/monarchy the queen is protected by guns. other politicians are protected by gun.
regular peasants i mean subject or citizens or whatever have no right to self defense!

 

[Qman]

Your point is that shooters always pick places where they think there won't be any guns. (Movie theaters, schools, etc)

A navy base is a location that a shooter is probably quite certain that will have guns on the premises (armed guards) so in that particular case the fact that the shooter pretty much knew guns would be there did not deter the shooter from carrying out the attack

In a similar vein schools in Israel had this problem with fanatics coming into their schools and shooting up their children. So the grandpa's and grandma's organized the PTO and most of them were armed. The fanatics didn't view getting shot up by grandma as a glorious death and decided to seek softer targets. The key was concealed carry folk being distributed in unpredictable groups.

The armed guards at a bank or naval base or potentially a school would be ineffective if they are not carrying concealed.

 

[moevillini]

I'm curious about the idea of mandatory gun safety education in schools - - what exactly would be taught, and at what ages?

Considering that the majority (by a 2-1 margin) of households do not have guns, what sort of safety lessons does a child need to be taught if that child is unlikely to ever come into contact with a gun - other than DO NOT TOUCH THE GUN unless a responsible adult who is well-known to them is present and they have permission from their parent/guardian.

Of course, if a household is a gun owning household, then it's important for those who may be handling the gun to know how to safely handle it. But would children below a certain age be encouraged or allowed to handle a gun in the first place? That is something that I think would have to be decided on a personal basis for each family/household - and if their threshold age is X years old, then those under X should be taught something different than those who are X or older.

As a kid, I knew a couple of families who had guns in the house, but they were kept hidden, locked up and unloaded and used for sport target shooting, and there was never an issue of the kids having access to them. As an adult, the only person I know who had a gun was the family next door. The dad was a cop, but he did not bring his gun home. So I wasn't concerned about my kids playing with his kids at their home.

So while education is good for those likely to have access to guns, I'm curious what you think should be taught on a general basis.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/number-of-households-with-guns-on-the-decline-study-shows/

The number of Americans who live in a household with at least one gun is lower than it's ever been, according to a major American trend survey that finds the decline in gun ownership is paralleled by a reduction in the number of Americans who hunt.

According to the latest General Social Survey, 32 percent of Americans either own a firearm themselves or live with someone who does, which ties a record low set in 2010. That's a significant decline since the late 1970s and early 1980s, when about half of Americans told researchers there was a gun in their household.

The General Social Survey is conducted by NORC, an independent research organization based at the University of Chicago, with money from the National Science Foundation. Because of its long-running and comprehensive set of questions about the demographics, behaviors and attitudes of the American public, it is a highly regarded source of data about social trends.

here's another link: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/03/05/america-has-more-guns-in-fewer-hands-than-ever-before%E2%80%8B/

 

[Qman]

I'm curious about the idea of mandatory gun safety education in schools - - what exactly would be taught, and at what ages?

Considering that the majority (by a 2-1 margin) of households do not have guns, what sort of safety lessons does a child need to be taught if that child is unlikely to ever come into contact with a gun - other than DO NOT TOUCH THE GUN unless a responsible adult who is well-known to them is present and they have permission from their parent/guardian.

Of course, if a household is a gun owning household, then it's important for those who may be handling the gun to know how to safely handle it. But would children below a certain age be encouraged or allowed to handle a gun in the first place? That is something that I think would have to be decided on a personal basis for each family/household - and if their threshold age is X years old, then those under X should be taught something different than those who are X or older.

As a kid, I knew a couple of families who had guns in the house, but they were kept hidden, locked up and unloaded and used for sport target shooting, and there was never an issue of the kids having access to them. As an adult, the only person I know who had a gun was the family next door. The dad was a cop, but he did not bring his gun home. So I wasn't concerned about my kids playing with his kids at their home.

So while education is good for those likely to have access to guns, I'm curious what you think should be taught on a general basis.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/number-of-households-with-guns-on-the-decline-study-shows/



here's another link: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/03/05/america-has-more-guns-in-fewer-hands-than-ever-before%E2%80%8B/

IMO there are two tacks to take with mandatory gun safety training in schools.

First you could have proto-militia training as a part of high school. Basically a simplified version of what the national guard does. Pros this is there are capable authorized instructors available via the military. It also would give the army a leg up on having a effective people to join the military. You go to the national guard bases or another firing range once a week for a few weeks to quality with a rifle and pistol. It would also reduce some the hysteria around guns because people would have some hands on education.

Second you could have the kind of safety you teach kids too young to use a gun safely. IE don't touch it.

 

[Gameface]

I'm curious about the idea of mandatory gun safety education in schools - - what exactly would be taught, and at what ages?

Considering that the majority (by a 2-1 margin) of households do not have guns, what sort of safety lessons does a child need to be taught if that child is unlikely to ever come into contact with a gun - other than DO NOT TOUCH THE GUN unless a responsible adult who is well-known to them is present and they have permission from their parent/guardian.

Of course, if a household is a gun owning household, then it's important for those who may be handling the gun to know how to safely handle it. But would children below a certain age be encouraged or allowed to handle a gun in the first place? That is something that I think would have to be decided on a personal basis for each family/household - and if their threshold age is X years old, then those under X should be taught something different than those who are X or older.

As a kid, I knew a couple of families who had guns in the house, but they were kept hidden, locked up and unloaded and used for sport target shooting, and there was never an issue of the kids having access to them. As an adult, the only person I know who had a gun was the family next door. The dad was a cop, but he did not bring his gun home. So I wasn't concerned about my kids playing with his kids at their home.

So while education is good for those likely to have access to guns, I'm curious what you think should be taught on a general basis.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/number-of-households-with-guns-on-the-decline-study-shows/



here's another link: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...s-more-guns-in-fewer-hands-than-ever-before​/

The education, in my opinion, should be a HS level class. It would first demonstrate the way in which various types of guns function. So, a semi-automatic handgun, a revolver, a bolt action rifle, a pump action shotgun, a semi-automatic rifle and a fully automatic rifle. That would all be week one stuff. Just pictures and animations demonstrating how rounds are fed from the magazine into the chamber, the way the hammer is activated, what the manual safety actually does and showing that many hand guns have no manual safety. Basically, what is a gun and how does it function in a mechanical sense.

Week two, knowing how it functions, how does one ensure they are acting in a safe manner when in the presence of or when handling a gun. The "four basic rules of firearm safety" would be introduced and it would be demonstrated how if followed they will prevent the accidental shooting of a person. Safe storage. When a person is allowed to carry a gun and how they are allowed to carry (loaded, unloaded, holstered, locked up, etc.).

What constitutes legitimate self defense with a firearm. What doesn't. How can one avoid situations where a person would have a legitimate reason to shoot them. Stats on how often firearms are used legitimately for self defense. How often are they used for what the shooter considers self defense, but does not fall under the law. How much more often they are used in ways completely incompatible with self defense (accidental shootings, domestic violence, suicide). The emotional toll that using a firearm for self defense takes on the shooter. The legal trouble using a firearm for self defense can cause even if it is ultimately found that it was used legitimately for self defense. Images of shooting victims. Stories of negligence that resulted in the death of innocent people.

The use of firearms for purposes other than self defense. Where is one allowed to target shoot. Proper etiquette when target shooting outdoors or at a shooting range. Safety while using firearms for hunting.

Statistics on firearm fatalities. The use of firearms for criminal activities. What additional penalties one faces when they commit a crime with a firearm. The increased likelihood that you will be shoot if you are using a firearm illegally. More images of shooting victims, Stories from people who used firearms illegally and what the consequences of that were.

 

[Jamezz]

The education, in my opinion, should be a HS level class. It would first demonstrate the way in which various types of guns function. So, a semi-automatic handgun, a revolver, a bolt action rifle, a pump action shotgun, a semi-automatic rifle and a fully automatic rifle. That would all be week one stuff. Just pictures and animations demonstrating how rounds are fed from the magazine into the chamber, the way the hammer is activated, what the manual safety actually does and showing that many hand guns have no manual safety. Basically, what is a gun and how does it function in a mechanical sense.

Week two, knowing how it functions, how does one ensure they are acting in a safe manner when in the presence of or when handling a gun. The "four basic rules of firearm safety" would be introduced and it would be demonstrated how if followed they will prevent the accidental shooting of a person. Safe storage. When a person is allowed to carry a gun and how they are allowed to carry (loaded, unloaded, holstered, locked up, etc.).

What constitutes legitimate self defense with a firearm. What doesn't. How can one avoid situations where a person would have a legitimate reason to shoot them. Stats on how often firearms are used legitimately for self defense. How often are they used for what the shooter considers self defense, but does not fall under the law. How much more often they are used in ways completely incompatible with self defense (accidental shootings, domestic violence, suicide). The emotional toll that using a firearm for self defense takes on the shooter. The legal trouble using a firearm for self defense can cause even if it is ultimately found that it was used legitimately for self defense. Images of shooting victims. Stories of negligence that resulted in the death of innocent people.

The use of firearms for purposes other than self defense. Where is one allowed to target shoot. Proper etiquette when target shooting outdoors or at a shooting range. Safety while using firearms for hunting.

Statistics on firearm fatalities. The use of firearms for criminal activities. What additional penalties one faces when they commit a crime with a firearm. The increased likelihood that you will be shoot if you are using a firearm illegally. More images of shooting victims, Stories from people who used firearms illegally and what the consequences of that were.

I like this proposal.