Beer happenings in Utah

[Ron Mexico]

#1 Salt lake is looking to pass laws to reduce restrictions on breweries. More small breweries for SLC if this passes!
https://www.utahbeer.blogspot.com/2015/10/salt-lake-city-wants-more-breweries.html

#2 Oklahoma is getting rid of their 3.2 beer laws. There are only a few states left with the 3.2 laws like Utah and Oklahoma is the largest consumer of the remaining states. This is going to put a lot of pressure on large brewers about making beer for Utah and how profitable it will be. Utah is going to really get pressured to change this law. Would love to see full strength beers on tap in Utah.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/sc...cle_23ed3f43-fd3d-5f8f-815d-90d53c6d3868.html

#3 Provo is getting their first brewery. Although it looks a little podunk to me I am still excited. Although I find it funny that I have wanted a brewery in Utah county for so long and they finally get one right after I move to SLC.

https://maplemountainbrewing.com/about.html

Gameface, all of this adds up to you starting your own small brewery??? Maybe name it JazzFanz brews since it was all your inspiration right? Your setup looks much better than the maple mountain brewery. Although I do love a good jalapeno beer and a good red beer.

On a side note anyone try any of these Gose beers that have hit Utah lately? I am loving them, such a strange taste at first but salty sour beers are so good. Avenues proper, Uintas and the two from Anderson Valley that just hit the shelves.

Oh we are also getting our first cider place in SLC too.

https://mountainwestcider.com/hard-cider-in-utah/

 

[dong2ha]

provo having a brewery is unbelievable. damn


Sent from the JazzFanz app

 

[Gameface]

I'll be very pleased if the 4%abv beer laws go away.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Wait, Oklahoma has 3.2% alcohol beer also? I never knew that.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Wait, Oklahoma has 3.2% alcohol beer also? I never knew that.

Their liquor laws have been traditionally really similar to Utah's.

Sent from my HTC0P4E1 using Tapatalk

 

[Gameface]

Wait, Oklahoma has 4%abv alcohol beer also? I never knew that.

fixed

 

[Gameface]

I think it's very underestimated how much better the variety and quality of beer available will be once we abandon the 4%abv restriction. Local breweries will benefit the most, and it will affect their out of state success more than it does their in-state success.

 

[VINYLONE]

Gameface, all of this adds up to you starting your own small brewery???

Dude. Do it. If you're looking for a change in life and the small business environment is positive in the state of Utah, why not? I mean, you have a passion for the suds and if I know one thing is that people love beer. If these aforementioned changes happen I see a boon happening in your state.

 

[Gameface]

Dude. Do it. If you're looking for a change in life and the small business environment is positive in the state of Utah, why not? I mean, you have a passion for the suds and if I know one thing is that people love beer. If these aforementioned changes happen I see a boon happening in your state.

That change would be encouraging in that regard but I honestly have no desire to open a brewery. I'm bad with money and I would make a terrible manager. I would have to hire actual professionals to do those things and that isn't usually realistic for a startup microbrewery.

If I won 100 million in the lottery I'd open a brew pub with the plan of doing it over the top and ending up with 250 million in debt before declaring bankruptcy.

 

[VINYLONE]

That change would be encouraging in that regard but I honestly have no desire to open a brewery. I'm bad with money and I would make a terrible manager. I would have to hire actual professionals to do those things and that isn't usually realistic for a startup microbrewery.

If I won 100 million in the lottery I'd open a brew pub with the plan of doing it over the top and ending up with 250 million in debt before declaring bankruptcy.

I like your honesty.

 

[Ron Mexico]

@Gameface

Want to make some good money and make beer in China?

 

[Gameface]

@Gameface

Want to make some good money and make beer in China?

Is it that easy?

 

[Ron Mexico]

Is it that easy?

There's a huge demand for good beer here and not a lot of it. I would say Utah has better craft beer and more breweries than Beijing which is 23 million. Not a good to start obviously. There is a lot of money in the city and money in good beer.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Is it that easy?

Being back in Beijing a couple months ago reminded me of this. There are about 50 new breweries since I left 6 months ago. They all seem to be doing very well. I partially wish I had started something in my neighborhood but then I remember covid forced bars closed for a really long time.

Anyways probably not the thread for it and I guess I should message you directly. I think I have your phone number somewhere. But there is no such thing as craft beer in Ethiopia. Although they do have some decent local beer. But I officially need to start brewing my own and am going to buy a home brew kit. I want something pretty decent. I wish I had put one in my shipping container from China I could have got a semi professional setup for a reasonable price. But I might get one in the USA when I go back later this year. Do you know much about Northern Brewer? I am looking at their ultimate craft brewery. What do you think of this kit and should I get anything else for it? Ill get a few of their premade beer kits to start before I start tinkering with my own.

Ultimate Craft Brewery in a Box - Stainless Steel Beer Making Starter Kit

Beginner brewers looking to advance their skills usually upgrade their wort chiller, kettle, or fermentors first. Don’t bother with the hassle of purchasing equipment piece by piece -- gather all the gear you need to level up your beer with our Ultimate Stainless Steel Craft Brewery in a Box...

www.northernbrewer.com

 

[Gameface]

Being back in Beijing a couple months ago reminded me of this. There are about 50 new breweries since I left 6 months ago. They all seem to be doing very well. I partially wish I had started something in my neighborhood but then I remember covid forced bars closed for a really long time.

Anyways probably not the thread for it and I guess I should message you directly. I think I have your phone number somewhere. But there is no such thing as craft beer in Ethiopia. Although they do have some decent local beer. But I officially need to start brewing my own and am going to buy a home brew kit. I want something pretty decent. I wish I had put one in my shipping container from China I could have got a semi professional setup for a reasonable price. But I might get one in the USA when I go back later this year. Do you know much about Northern Brewer? I am looking at their ultimate craft brewery. What do you think of this kit and should I get anything else for it? Ill get a few of their premade beer kits to start before I start tinkering with my own.

Ultimate Craft Brewery in a Box - Stainless Steel Beer Making Starter Kit

Beginner brewers looking to advance their skills usually upgrade their wort chiller, kettle, or fermentors first. Don’t bother with the hassle of purchasing equipment piece by piece -- gather all the gear you need to level up your beer with our Ultimate Stainless Steel Craft Brewery in a Box...

www.northernbrewer.com

Something that kit doesn't have is a mash tun. (I apologize if I explain things you already know) The mash tun is used before the boil to convert starches in the grain to sugars. You can still do that without the mash tun using what's called "brew in a bag" which uses a large fine mesh bag with the grains. You've got to mash somewhere around 145F-156F and ideally you want to hold your mash temp to just a couple degrees of variation over about 1 hour. It can be hard in a stainless steel kettle using a propane burner. Brew in a bag is also a little messier and a bit clunky but there are many really good brewers who love it and really like the simplicity and needing less equipment. You could add an igloo cooler type mash tun which I bet NB sells.

If budget isn't really a concern there are full electric brewery set-ups for a few grand. Electric has several benefits, precision control without constant intervention being a big one.

This one is very expensive but is similar to the system I use.

Spike Trio System | Spike Brewing

The leader in premium home and professional brewing equipment!

spikebrewing.com

If you have any questions as you're looking at stuff, like what's the difference between HERMS and RIMS or whatever else I'm happy to help. I haven't been keeping up the last couple of years so there may be some things that I'm not familiar with but I'll do my best.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Something that kit doesn't have is a mash tun. (I apologize if I explain things you already know) The mash tun is used before the boil to convert starches in the grain to sugars. You can still do that without the mash tun using what's called "brew in a bag" which uses a large fine mesh bag with the grains. You've got to mash somewhere around 145F-156F and ideally you want to hold your mash temp to just a couple degrees of variation over about 1 hour. It can be hard in a stainless steel kettle using a propane burner. Brew in a bag is also a little messier and a bit clunky but there are many really good brewers who love it and really like the simplicity and needing less equipment. You could add an igloo cooler type mash tun which I bet NB sells.

If budget isn't really a concern there are full electric brewery set-ups for a few grand. Electric has several benefits, precision control without constant intervention being a big one.

This one is very expensive but is similar to the system I use.

Spike Trio System | Spike Brewing

The leader in premium home and professional brewing equipment!

spikebrewing.com

If you have any questions as you're looking at stuff, like what's the difference between HERMS and RIMS or whatever else I'm happy to help. I haven't been keeping up the last couple of years so there may be some things that I'm not familiar with but I'll do my best.

I wish this was stuff I didnt know, but its not. I had to read about that after you posted it. I have thought about the electric systems and wanted to get one from China but electricity is unreliable here. I think it will cut out at a bad moment. I have a generator but that will take 5-10 minutes to get running after an outage. Do you think that would be a big deal? Money is an object, but I am happy to spend a lot on this. I dont spend a lot of money on other things right now so... This system looks very similar to the one I was wanting to buy from China. The bigger issue is the system has to be something I can take as luggage on a plane or reasonably ship. This looks far too big for that. I would love that system in my basement though. Even something I can take in multiple trips would be okay. Maybe I could just leave the table and take the rest though.

 

[Gameface]

I wish this was stuff I didnt know, but its not. I had to read about that after you posted it. I have thought about the electric systems and wanted to get one from China but electricity is unreliable here. I think it will cut out at a bad moment. I have a generator but that will take 5-10 minutes to get running after an outage. Do you think that would be a big deal? Money is an object, but I am happy to spend a lot on this. I dont spend a lot of money on other things right now so... This system looks very similar to the one I was wanting to buy from China. The bigger issue is the system has to be something I can take as luggage on a plane or reasonably ship. This looks far too big for that. I would love that system in my basement though. Even something I can take in multiple trips would be okay. Maybe I could just leave the table and take the rest though.

Definitely wouldn't work as something to carry in luggage. If you want to move stuff back and fourth you might consider a small 1gal system. That only yields about 5 beers per batch but it would be much easier to travel with.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Definitely wouldn't work as something to carry in luggage. If you want to move stuff back and fourth you might consider a small 1gal system. That only yields about 5 beers per batch but it would be much easier to travel with

I can definitely take the kit I showed as my luggage. Its a huge pain though but ultimately worth it. After I get it here anytime I move ill have a shipping container for everything. But I think I might have a friend moving here from the US with a shipping container and space. So I am looking at the spike system you sent. The power at my house cuts out fairly often so I am worried that will be an issue. I have a generator I can kick on but that takes some time and I am worried I can easily run batches if the power is off too long and wondering if my generator will be enough to run this. I am thinking I will just take my chances and hope its a good power day when I brew. I guess ill have to get all the ingredients in the USA as well since I doubt I can find the right grains, yeast, and hops here. I am thinking along with this Ill need to get a scale and a grain mill of some kind right? I dont think I want to bottle here so I think Ill buy kegs and taps but I found those here at the local brewing factory for sale I probably need to get good cleaner from them as well. Anything else you would suggest?

 

[Gameface]

I can definitely take the kit I showed as my luggage. Its a huge pain though but ultimately worth it. After I get it here anytime I move ill have a shipping container for everything. But I think I might have a friend moving here from the US with a shipping container and space. So I am looking at the spike system you sent. The power at my house cuts out fairly often so I am worried that will be an issue. I have a generator I can kick on but that takes some time and I am worried I can easily run batches if the power is off too long and wondering if my generator will be enough to run this. I am thinking I will just take my chances and hope its a good power day when I brew. I guess ill have to get all the ingredients in the USA as well since I doubt I can find the right grains, yeast, and hops here. I am thinking along with this Ill need to get a scale and a grain mill of some kind right? I dont think I want to bottle here so I think Ill buy kegs and taps but I found those here at the local brewing factory for sale I probably need to get good cleaner from them as well. Anything else you would suggest?

A reasonable scale that can weigh 25lbs to 40 or 50lbs is good to have. A 5 gallon bucket filled with grain is a little over 25lbs of grain weight, so based on your batch size and grain bill that might be more than enough. Better to have some headroom so that you're still accurate after tearing (sp?) for the bucket weight. If you're going all grain, which it seems you are, and which I would recommend if you're willing, then I'd highly recommend a good mill. I think Spike just came out with an internally motorized mill, but it is expensive. Generally in the past you either DIY a motorized mill table or just put the mill on top of a bucket and use an electric drill to drive it. A slowish consistent speed is important when milling so that you get a uniform crush. Don't know if you're into coffee stuff, but it is similar (I'd say more real world important for brewing) to having a good grind for your coffee beans. It has a pretty big impact on mash efficiency but too fine a crush and you can get a stuck sparge which is just about the worst possible brewday experience there is. A stuck sparge resulted in my one and only abandoned batch that included me throwing my igloo cooler mash tun across my backyard in frustration. You can have a decent brew supply store mill your grain for you, or an online supplier for an additional charge, but they usually go extra course so that you don't blame them for any issues.

The only other thing I would suggest is to look into yeast. Will you do a starter? It is almost mandatory for bigger batches (above 5 gallons) when using liquid yeast. There are calculators out there to help figure out how much yeast you should pitch. It matters. Dry yest is cheap enough you can just buy extra packets if you don't want to mess with starters but the variety of dry yeast is a few dozen strains where with liquid you have hundreds of strains. Yeast really matters. The saying goes, brewers make wort, yeast makes beer. It is a really good idea to work with a limited number of strains and get a good feel for how they work. Fermentation can be very different strain to strain, so becoming an expert in a strain or two can be very beneficial.

So talking about yeast, fermentation temperature is, in my opinion, the most crucial part of making good beer. I always aimed for the low end, often lower than the low end of the yeast's listed range. I was able to successfully ferment beer at temps colder than the yeast sellers recommended range because I made really big starters, kept the temp consistent for the first 3 days and then very minimally raised the temp over the next week to keep the yeast going. Being able to control fermentation temp and hold it to within 1-2C (2C is a lot here) for the first 3 days is absolutely crucial IMHO. Some people advocate for a higher pitch temp and then bringing the temp down over the first three days. I absolutely DO NOT support that. If I get into why I'll be here for a min of 45min explaining why but the best thing I can say is that it "confuses" the yeast. Dropping temps signal to the yeast that they should prepare for hibernation. In the wild when yeast go to work they produce their own heat as they metabolize sugars and are reproducing. It's sort of like a climax situation where you want them to build in energy until things get where you want, to throw cold water on them mid uh, mid excitement, can cause what's called a "stalled fermentation." Again, I'm already making this more complicated than I want to, but let the yeast carry their momentum all the way through until the fermentation is finished. Even with a starter, a really big starter and lots of healthy yeast, your beer will end up with easily 20x if not 100x the amount of yeast cells you put into it. Don't interrupt that process. Let the yeast have their burning man festival full of all the yeasty debauchery they can handle. That said, you keep the temp controlled as a sort of way of enforcing a speed limit on their activity so that you don't get excessive phenolics and esters.

 

[Ron Mexico]

A reasonable scale that can weigh 25lbs to 40 or 50lbs is good to have. A 5 gallon bucket filled with grain is a little over 25lbs of grain weight, so based on your batch size and grain bill that might be more than enough. Better to have some headroom so that you're still accurate after tearing (sp?) for the bucket weight. If you're going all grain, which it seems you are, and which I would recommend if you're willing, then I'd highly recommend a good mill. I think Spike just came out with an internally motorized mill, but it is expensive. Generally in the past you either DIY a motorized mill table or just put the mill on top of a bucket and use an electric drill to drive it. A slowish consistent speed is important when milling so that you get a uniform crush. Don't know if you're into coffee stuff, but it is similar (I'd say more real world important for brewing) to having a good grind for your coffee beans. It has a pretty big impact on mash efficiency but too fine a crush and you can get a stuck sparge which is just about the worst possible brewday experience there is. A stuck sparge resulted in my one and only abandoned batch that included me throwing my igloo cooler mash tun across my backyard in frustration. You can have a decent brew supply store mill your grain for you, or an online supplier for an additional charge, but they usually go extra course so that you don't blame them for any issues.

The only other thing I would suggest is to look into yeast. Will you do a starter? It is almost mandatory for bigger batches (above 5 gallons) when using liquid yeast. There are calculators out there to help figure out how much yeast you should pitch. It matters. Dry yest is cheap enough you can just buy extra packets if you don't want to mess with starters but the variety of dry yeast is a few dozen strains where with liquid you have hundreds of strains. Yeast really matters. The saying goes, brewers make wort, yeast makes beer. It is a really good idea to work with a limited number of strains and get a good feel for how they work. Fermentation can be very different strain to strain, so becoming an expert in a strain or two can be very beneficial.

So talking about yeast, fermentation temperature is, in my opinion, the most crucial part of making good beer. I always aimed for the low end, often lower than the low end of the yeast's listed range. I was able to successfully ferment beer at temps colder than the yeast sellers recommended range because I made really big starters, kept the temp consistent for the first 3 days and then very minimally raised the temp over the next week to keep the yeast going. Being able to control fermentation temp and hold it to within 1-2C (2C is a lot here) for the first 3 days is absolutely crucial IMHO. Some people advocate for a higher pitch temp and then bringing the temp down over the first three days. I absolutely DO NOT support that. If I get into why I'll be here for a min of 45min explaining why but the best thing I can say is that it "confuses" the yeast. Dropping temps signal to the yeast that they should prepare for hibernation. In the wild when yeast go to work they produce their own heat as they metabolize sugars and are reproducing. It's sort of like a climax situation where you want them to build in energy until things get where you want, to throw cold water on them mid uh, mid excitement, can cause what's called a "stalled fermentation." Again, I'm already making this more complicated than I want to, but let the yeast carry their momentum all the way through until the fermentation is finished. Even with a starter, a really big starter and lots of healthy yeast, your beer will end up with easily 20x if not 100x the amount of yeast cells you put into it. Don't interrupt that process. Let the yeast have their burning man festival full of all the yeasty debauchery they can handle. That said, you keep the temp controlled as a sort of way of enforcing a speed limit on their activity so that you don't get excessive phenolics and esters.

Wow! Thanks this is a lot of great info. I had some yeast plans, but this is making me rethink that. I'll do a little more research with your information now. I'm going to have to bring it from USA to here so I thought dry might be the only option since liquid ones might get ruined with temp changes. I was playing to do a starter but didn't realize that was only used with liquid. I have a lot more reading to do on this. I really appreciate this info!