My thoughts =/= David Locke's thoughts

[jazzfan1971]

I was listening to his podcast today and Locke was gushing over the Jazz. Talking about how good the offense and defense looked vs. Atlanta.

Now, don't get me wrong, I liked winning as much as anyone, but, my impression of the Jazz play couldn't be more different than Locke, and I wanted to talk with some folks out there and see where they stand.

What I saw
----------------
I don't like the half court offense a bit. It looks exactly like the motion offense that Sloan dusted off years back. And like then it looks totally worthless to me. You swing the ball to the left, get trapped and toss the ball out front, about 35 feet from the rim and swing the ball to the right. Rinse and repeat until someone is forced to put up a desparation shot. At no time does the motion offense seem to put any pressure on a defense, at no time does it seem to move the ball into the middle and cause the defense to collapse. It's just pass, pass, pass, pass, desparation shot.

And on defense, I thought we were giving up a ton of rebounds that we should have secured. And by my eye it was due to lack of effort a lot of time.

Despite the win I was disappointed in the Jazz. And more in Snyder. I expect a better offensive plan than just passing the ball back and forth around the 3pt line til the shot clock expires.

---------------------
So, what did you guys see? Agree with me or Locke or somewhere inbetween?

 

[Craig K. Manscill]

I wonder, what offense would you implement? The purpose of the half court weave offense is to have continuous movement with the wings while other aspects of the play happen in the post. It is meant to add a bit of variable complexity as opposed to a PG doing an endless Arroyo esque "yo-yo" until the shot clock expires. In this offense, new opportunities may arise if the player receiving the pass sees them. And then, at other times, no opportunities arise. Just like any other offense, it will fail. However, fitting this team with an offense, which has no dominant point guard or playmaker, requires this type of offense. It gets the most out of mediocre playmaking.

Now, if you want Hayward and Burke to become Steve Nash, then why don't you come over here, float your boat, and see where that takes you? Because if there's one thing you can't do, it's be in it to win it. Live or die on the road... as a hero, bitch.

- Craig

 

[fishonjazz]

I would like to see more favors/burks pick n roll

 

[jazzfan1971]

I wonder, what offense would you implement? The purpose of the half court weave offense is to have continuous movement with the wings while other aspects of the play happen in the post. It is meant to add a bit of variable complexity as opposed to a PG doing an endless Arroyo esque "yo-yo" until the shot clock expires. In this offense, new opportunities may arise if the player receiving the pass sees them. And then, at other times, no opportunities arise. Just like any other offense, it will fail. However, fitting this team with an offense, which has no dominant point guard or playmaker, requires this type of offense. It gets the most out of mediocre playmaking.

Now, if you want Hayward and Burke to become Steve Nash, then why don't you come over here, float your boat, and see where that takes you? Because if there's one thing you can't do, it's be in it to win it. Live or die on the road... as a hero, bitch.

- Craig

I thought Hayward was quite good at initiating the offense with the ball in his hands last year. That's gone now with the new motion offense or whatever they are calling it.

 

[JAZZGASM]

I was listening to his podcast today and Locke was gushing over the Jazz. Talking about how good the offense and defense looked vs. Atlanta.

Now, don't get me wrong, I liked winning as much as anyone, but, my impression of the Jazz play couldn't be more different than Locke, and I wanted to talk with some folks out there and see where they stand.

What I saw
----------------
I don't like the half court offense a bit. It looks exactly like the motion offense that Sloan dusted off years back. And like then it looks totally worthless to me. You swing the ball to the left, get trapped and toss the ball out front, about 35 feet from the rim and swing the ball to the right. Rinse and repeat until someone is forced to put up a desparation shot. At no time does the motion offense seem to put any pressure on a defense, at no time does it seem to move the ball into the middle and cause the defense to collapse. It's just pass, pass, pass, pass, desparation shot.

And on defense, I thought we were giving up a ton of rebounds that we should have secured. And by my eye it was due to lack of effort a lot of time.

Despite the win I was disappointed in the Jazz. And more in Snyder. I expect a better offensive plan than just passing the ball back and forth around the 3pt line til the shot clock expires.

---------------------
So, what did you guys see? Agree with me or Locke or somewhere inbetween?

Agreed, and I have daid as much multiple times. I actually think the UCLA offense would work great with certain lineups. We do run a bit of the horns offense, but we do not run a lot od the wrinkles that I think would work best with this team. I feel like Snyder just wants to run his offense and get the players to make it work. I would prefer to run sets that complement the strength of the roster.

That said, it takes time to add extra sets, so hopefully it gets better and more is added as the season progresses.

 

[Witty Username]

I never agree with Locke. He is a puppet. He routinely glosses over the issues while preaching out rather arbitrary plus stats. His stats are rarely "Wow" and mostly "Huh?" I LOATHE listening to the radio if I have to. Heaven forbid we get an update on the score or if someone made a free throw when he's on the call.

 

[framer]

The problem you might be having is that, if you are an older Jazz fan, you may be a bit spoiled. Stockton was here a long time, Williams was here for quite a while and both were excellent at running a squad. Those dudes don't grow on trees. We have had a Rookie pg starting for most of the last three years. It makes it tough to achieve the type of consistency you see on all of the silky smooth offenses currently in the NBA. If Exum continues to develop and the team is allowed to age together a bit, the offensive smoothness will improve greatly. If we can keep the same defensive intensity, this team will be special.

 

[jazzfan1971]

I dont' think that's my problem, never liked the motion offense before, don't like it now. I'd prefer just about anything. PNR with Favors? Yes please. Dump it to Favors in the Post and let him work? Yes please. ISO with Burks? Sure. Let Gordon penetrate and kick? Sure. Run Hood off a double screen to get him a lightly contested 3 as the first option? Yup.

There isn't much out there that I don't like better than the motion offense.

 

[framer]

I dont' think that's my problem, never liked the motion offense before, don't like it now. I'd prefer just about anything. PNR with Favors? Yes please. Dump it to Favors in the Post and let him work? Yes please. ISO with Burks? Sure. Let Gordon penetrate and kick? Sure. Run Hood off a double screen to get him a lightly contested 3 as the first option? Yup.

There isn't much out there that I don't like better than the motion offense.

I hear ya, but on the other hand, there is nothing that an opposing team would rather not play than a stifling defense coupled with a polished motion offense. I do think that Favors has broken out to the point where we need to run straight pick and roll with him at certain portions of the game until the opposing team can stop it. That stuff is demoralizing too. . .

 

[Douchebag K]

I wonder, what offense would you implement? The purpose of the half court weave offense is to have continuous movement with the wings while other aspects of the play happen in the post. It is meant to add a bit of variable complexity as opposed to a PG doing an endless Arroyo esque "yo-yo" until the shot clock expires. In this offense, new opportunities may arise if the player receiving the pass sees them. And then, at other times, no opportunities arise. Just like any other offense, it will fail. However, fitting this team with an offense, which has no dominant point guard or playmaker, requires this type of offense. It gets the most out of mediocre playmaking.

Now, if you want Hayward and Burke to become Steve Nash, then why don't you come over here, float your boat, and see where that takes you? Because if there's one thing you can't do, it's be in it to win it. Live or die on the road... as a hero, bitch.

- Craig

Craig

You're trying oh so very very hard Craig, really digging deep to pull out every ounce of insight and wit ... I'm afraid it's just not working my friend. I think it is time to pull the plug on your caper. Yes, yes that's the answer.

 

[Ron Mexico]

I dont' think that's my problem, never liked the motion offense before, don't like it now. I'd prefer just about anything. PNR with Favors? Yes please. Dump it to Favors in the Post and let him work? Yes please. ISO with Burks? Sure. Let Gordon penetrate and kick? Sure. Run Hood off a double screen to get him a lightly contested 3 as the first option? Yup.

There isn't much out there that I don't like better than the motion offense.

Hmm, I have seen all of these scenarios in games. Guess your problems solved.

Jazz have run quite a few different looks and options. Quinn is trying to run a lot of stuff. I am guessing as the season goes on this team will do two things. 1. Run their plays better. They are still out of position and still looking around too much. 2. They will find the more effective plays and go to them more often once they run the plays correctly. This team is still very young and Quinn is doing an excellent job of teaching the players and having them work on new skills and new ideas. This will make the team worse in the short run but much better in the long run. If he starts running Isos with Burk and dumping it down to Favors most plays this team will not get better and not be an elite team. Having an offense with lots of different options and getting the ball into lots of players hands each half court set and allowing them to find good looks or keep the ball moving will make this team much better in the long run.

I want this team to get better not just be in a must win now mode. No reason to get desperate, we are not winning or competing for a championship this year. Hopefully if this team develops well we will be in a couple years.

Sorry continue on being negative about the current team and saying Snyder and Sloan are bad coaches.

 

[Stifle Tower]

All we need is guys to hit shots.
Starting SF is at 39%
Starting PG = 30%
Backup PF's = 29% and 27%

 

[Just Ted]

All we need is love. All we need is love love.. Love is all we need.

 

[candrew]

All we need is guys to hit shots.
Starting SF is at 39%
Starting PG = 30%
Backup PF's = 29% and 27%

This is pretty much it - Jazz get plenty of open looks. The problem is they have 6 legitimate NBA players on the active roster. The rest are lucky to be in the league. While I often despise watching the opposing team's feeds on NBALP, every once in awhile you get a fresh perspective that has value. One thing I've consistently heard from color guys is The Jazz execute well on offense. They just don't always have the talent on the floor to make it work.

 

[homeytennis]

This is pretty much it - Jazz get plenty of open looks. The problem is they have 6 legitimate NBA players on the active roster. The rest are lucky to be in the league. While I often despise watching the opposing team's feeds on NBALP, every once in awhile you get a fresh perspective that has value. One thing I've consistently heard from color guys is The Jazz execute well on offense. They just don't always have the talent on the floor to make it work.

Look to the DLeague and Cotton, Sundiata Gaines and Elliot Williams are putting up pretty good numbers.

 

[seattlejazzfan]

Look to the DLeague and Cotton, Sundiata Gaines and Elliot Williams are putting up pretty good numbers.

Lol. Just love Homey's consistency.

 

[candrew]

The problem you might be having is that, if you are an older Jazz fan, you may be a bit spoiled. Stockton was here a long time, Williams was here for quite a while and both were excellent at running a squad. Those dudes don't grow on trees.

Right. Talented PG's play one or two years in college at the most. College coaches are not going to build their offense around one 18 year old kid as the sole distributor. That's one of the reasons why most NBA teams run a motion offense or the catch and shoot/one-on-one nonsense.

I think once CP3 gets up in age and sees his minutes cut and Durant leaves OKC you won't see any more 10 APG PG's in the NBA for a while.

 

[homeytennis]

Michael Stockton is averaging 0 points 1 rebound and 1 assist per game.

 

[franklin]

I dont' think that's my problem, never liked the motion offense before, don't like it now. I'd prefer just about anything. PNR with Favors? Yes please. Dump it to Favors in the Post and let him work? Yes please. ISO with Burks? Sure. Let Gordon penetrate and kick? Sure. Run Hood off a double screen to get him a lightly contested 3 as the first option? Yup.

There isn't much out there that I don't like better than the motion offense.

San Antonio Spurs run motion. The Utah Quin Snyder's run high school ****. Please do not call it motion.

 

[jazzfan1971]

I'm no coach, not even that schooled in x's and o's. If it's not motion it isn't. To me it looks a lot like an offense that Sloan put in back in the day that one of the announcers said was based on Doug Moe's motion offense. (as near as I can remember the facts that is)

So, call it what you like, but It looks very familiar to me, and still as bad as ever. I think it might work if your primary ball handler had a fantastic first step and the lead into the motion offense started with a defensive scramble, but, it just doesn't look like it works against a set defense by my eye.