Global Warming

[One Brow]

Do you realize that your position is tantamount to invoking Godwin's law?

Saying that you can't form a conclusion within the bounds of science is an extreme position.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

I agree that, as some sort of incontrovertible number, there is not and never will be any such thing as a single value that represents the average temperature of the earth. For one thing, there are dozens of ways to take averages.

However, this is irrelevant to the fact that, regardless of which averaging method being used, the average temperature is rising when you use that method.

Example numbers:
[table="width: 500"]
[tr]
[td]Method[/td]
[td]1950 average[/td]
[td]2010 average[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]21[/td]
[td]21.5[/td]
[td]22.5[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]23.1[/td]
[td]23.5[/td]
[td]24.4[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

Would any reasonable person deny the temperature had risen 2 degrees?

uhh... yeah. If you subtract 2 from the number you have under your 2010 average the result is lower than the number you began with. I agree with what you're saying about computing averages, though, but the data that is presented in that video does not show the two degree rise that you're talking about. Can you show me where to see the source data you're using?

 

[Siro]

uhh... yeah. If you subtract 2 from the number you have under your 2010 average the result is lower than the number you began with. I agree with what you're saying about computing averages, though, but the data that is presented in that video does not show the two degree rise that you're talking about. Can you show me where to see the source data you're using?

Why would you compare numbers from same year to determine rise in temp. I have no idea how to interpret that table.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Why would you compare numbers from same year to determine rise in temp. I have no idea how to interpret that table.

I wasn't comparing the same year, but I think OneBrow might have been. Either way, the data doesn't seem to say what he says it does.

 

[One Brow]

*He displays NASA graphs that show that global temperatures are not increasing (though they are fluctuating, they are actually down in recent years).

2014 was the warmest year ever. 2015 is on track to be even warmer.

*He displays sea level data which shows that the ocean has risen 20 cm in the last 100 years (not 13 inches in 10 years as you say) and that this pattern has been consistent for over 300 years).

20 cm in the previous century, only 6 in the century before.

* He presents graphs that show that sever weather (hurricanes and tornados) are not at unusual levels.

In frequency, correct. In intensity, incorrect. The same number of storms, but today they are much more violent.

* He claims that Antartic ice is at record levels but he doesn't back that up with data. This NASA article seems to back up his claims, though (https://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/antarctic-sea-ice-reaches-new-record-maximum).

Sea ice surrounding Antarctica reached a new record high extent this year, covering more of the southern oceans than it has since scientists began a long-term satellite record to map sea ice extent in the late 1970s. The upward trend in the Antarctic, however, is only about a third of the magnitude of the rapid loss of sea ice in the Arctic Ocean.

Don't even pretend to be unbiased after this little quote mine. If you were searching for honest answers, you would have noticed the invalidity of this point.

I find his argument far more compelling than yours at this point.

Which says more about you that the arguments.

 

[One Brow]

Unless I'm reading this wrong, it looks like average had risen 1 degree.

uhh... yeah. If you subtract 2 from the number you have under your 2010 average the result is lower than the number you began with. I agree with what you're saying about computing averages, though, but the data that is presented in that video does not show the two degree rise that you're talking about. Can you show me where to see the source data you're using?

Sorry, I messed that table up badly. I fixed it to what I meant to say. The non-existence of a true average temperature does not prevent us from seeing a relative increase.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

If you are committed to believing that temperatures are rising then don't click on this link:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamest...-not-u-s-temperatures-set-a-record-this-year/

Especially don't click on the links within the article that lead to graphs showing what they have done with the raw data. If you are certain that this debate is over and not worth discussing you are not going to like what you see. If any of you do click on it, though, I look forward to your explanations.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

2014 was the warmest year ever. 2015 is on track to be even warmer.



20 cm in the previous century, only 6 in the century before.



In frequency, correct. In intensity, incorrect. The same number of storms, but today they are much more violent.





Don't even pretend to be unbiased after this little quote mine. If you were searching for honest answers, you would have noticed the invalidity of this point.



Which says more about you that the arguments.

Where does your data come from for the warmest year ever claim? Can you provide a link?

Earlier you said the ocean had risen 13 inches in ten years. Now you're saying 30 cm (agreeing with the claim on the video) in 100 years. Which is it, because those two pieces of info don't match at all. Your facts are seeming very suspect.

As for your comment about being unbiased, I made no claim about arctic sea ice. My point was 100% about antarctic ice. Nice try, though.

I am looking for the truth and it is revealing itself not to match what the global warming crowd is claiming.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Sorry, I messed that table up badly. I fixed it to what I meant to say. The non-existence of a true average temperature does not prevent us from seeing a relative increase.

No worries. Tinkering with data seems to be a specialty of the global warming scientists so it looks like you'll fit right in.

 

[b_line]

Unless I'm reading this wrong, it looks like average had risen 1 degree.

Is the data in Celsius, and they are claiming 2 degrees F?

 

[FalseFlagg K]

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. The proof that climate is changing as a result of human activities is overwhelming.

1. Measured CO2 levels as measured from ice cores. (I guess this assumes you believe in a positive correlation between atmospheric CO2 and temperature, but if your'e not willing to spot that then we're really just playing a game of flat earth society).
2. Rate of sea level rise (Approx. 13 inches in the last 10 years vs. 6ish inches in 100 years prior)
3. Surface temperature increases contrasted with solar minimums.
4. Ocean temperature increases
5. Shrinking Ice sheets, glacial coverage and polar coverage
6. Increased ocean acidity

This isn't something that is, at this point, controversial. The evidence that warming is occurring is overwhelming. That's why it's the "consensus opinion."

We can disagree about what the ultimate impact of warming will be (that's where Franklin is going), but it's ludicrous to assert that the evidence of warming isn't public.

13 inches in 10 years ?? lol This is a perfect example of the "don't let the truth get in the way of a good story" mantra that the climate change extremists like to utilize. The massive jumps from pieces of data "proving" their theories or that every single weather event being conclusive proof of climate change etc etc makes it hard to take some of them seriously

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Is the data in Celsius, and they are claiming 2 degrees F?

I'm pretty sure that OneBrow literally made the data up, then when he realized that the his made up data didn't match what he was saying it said he simply changed it. If you go back to his post you will notice that the math mysteriously works now, even though it doesn't in the posts where his original table was quoted. He also made up the stuff about the oceans rising 13 inches in ten years, and who knows how much of the other stuff he has been purporting as facts is just convenient information he generates between his ears.