Basis for Trump Appeal: Authoritarianism

[franklin]

American exceptionalism is what keeps Americans from truly exercising their power. American power is insane and that power is what leads to transgressions. If you remove American exceptionalism, the thing that compels America to try and behave morally/with principle, the world would be in serious trouble. American cynicism is probably what you should be worried about. When American leaders no longer have to come up with a moral justification and instead can claim national interest alone America will become a lot more aggressive.

Exactly.

America alone has altruistically created a peaceful and safe world for billions of people. We will continue shouldering the burden until the entire world is peaceful, safe, and prosperous.

In 200 years, the world with look back with admiration on our foreign policy, and embarrassment on those who currently want America to apologize for standing up for basic human rights.

 

[Red]

Has the United States government always supported basic human rights? When I was in grammar school and high school, we were taught that the United States was always on the side of "good". We could readily be identified. We were the ones wearing the white hats in any conflict. We stood for "truth, justice, and the American Way". Actually, that phrase might have originated in the old Superman TV series, lol, can't quite remember. But, I think a closer look demonstrates we've pretty much acted in our own self interest.
And we have supported some pretty brutal dictatorships...

https://www.alternet.org/world/7-fascist-regimes-enthusiastically-supported-america

 

[BabyPeterzz]

Has the United States government always supported basic human rights? When I was in grammar school and high school, we were taught that the United States was always on the side of "good". We could readily be identified. We were the ones wearing the white hats in any conflict. We stood for "truth, justice, and the American Way". Actually, that phrase might have originated in the old Superman TV series, lol, can't quite remember. But, I think a closer look demonstrates we've pretty much acted in our own self interest.
And we have supported some pretty brutal dictatorships...

https://www.alternet.org/world/7-fascist-regimes-enthusiastically-supported-america

One mans "Freedom and Democracy" is another mans "Jihad in the name Allah." It just depends on what side you're on. There is a fine line between patriotism and nationalism, and it seems the current political climate has further radicalized the far right in this regard. The ends do not always justify the means, and America's policy in the middle east is so far a giant failure and cost the region, and ourselves, many human lives. This fairy tale that we're some sort of savior that nationalists are gripping on to is nothing more than that; a cute story devoid of nuance and completely narcissistic. Whatever good will and karma the U.S. garnered from WWII had been completely pissed away since.

"The road to hell was paved with good intentions."

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

You didn't answer my question-- would you feel comfortable with a German politician being held to the same requests of a nationalistic German populace?

I do not think modern Germany has anything to be embarrassed about. The Germans of today are not responsible for the Holocaust or anything like it. So yes, I would feel comfortable with a German politician making the statement you posted.

I want to be careful not to let you completely convolute this conversation, though. I have said repeatedly that I am not a fan of Trump. I believe he has many, many, many flaws as a candidate. Just because I made a post in this thread saying that I think his appeal is much more complex than the authoritarian argument does not mean I am willing or interested in defending Trump in any way.

 

[JimLes]

When American leaders no longer have to come up with a moral justification and instead can claim national interest alone America will become a lot more aggressive.

Did you miss the last 15 years or something?

 

[franklin]

One mans "Freedom and Democracy" is another mans "Jihad in the name Allah." It just depends on what side you're on. There is a fine line between patriotism and nationalism, and it seems the current political climate has further radicalized the far right in this regard. The ends do not always justify the means, and America's policy in the middle east is so far a giant failure and cost the region, and ourselves, many human lives. This fairy tale that we're some sort of savior that nationalists are gripping on to is nothing more than that; a cute story devoid of nuance and completely narcissistic. Whatever good will and karma the U.S. garnered from WWII had been completely pissed away since.

"The road to hell was paved with good intentions."

The Leninist anti-imperialism stance is what lacks nuance. US foreign policy has been countering Chinese and Russian expansionism since before the Korean war. We saved half of Korea, helped pressure reunification of Germany, broke up the USSR thus bringing democracy to millions in Eastern Europe....

We can all sit back with no intelligence bashing our military intelligence and decisions. Maybe some weren't optimal but the world is a better place because of them. This Donald Trump rhetoric aside -- get out teh middle east, close teh borders, deport messicans, end free trade... it's all empty rhetoric.

 

[♪alt13]

Did you miss the last 15 years or something?

If we're speaking morally, it would probably be easier for me to make an argument that the US should have acted more often,earlier, and sustained forces for longer than it would be for you to make an argument that the US should have acted less often, later, and should have left quickly. Where would you like to start? Sudan, maybe?

 

[fishonjazz]

Exactly.

America alone has altruistically created a peaceful and safe world for billions of people. We will continue shouldering the burden until the entire world is peaceful, safe, and prosperous.

In 200 years, the world with look back with admiration on our foreign policy, and embarrassment on those who currently want America to apologize for standing up for basic human rights.

We should maybe take a look at a place with tons of human rights issues, but lacking oil or some other thing for us to gain.

Maybe Africa?

 

[Stoked]

We should maybe take a look at a place with tons of human rights issues, but lacking oil or some other thing for us to gain.

Maybe Africa?

I'd like to see heavy investment in Africa. Power generation, farming, education, healthcare, infrastructure...no strings attached.

Here is a funded program for 150 doctors Chad and 5 clinic for them to work at. Bye!

Hi Nigeria send us 150 people to train in various fields needed to run a power generator we are willing to build for you. Bye!

Hi Libya! Here is a new method of irrigation that will vastly improve farming for you and 250 mil to make it happen. Bye!

 

[franklin]

We should maybe take a look at a place with tons of human rights issues, but lacking oil or some other thing for us to gain.

Maybe Africa?

It has nothing to do with oil or resources. We don't go into Africa because it's not a geo-political threat that the other side is entering.

I'm not sure how I feel about the role of a nation in this type of work, but it's very saddening how poverty stricken some places of the world are in this day and age, including in our own back yard.

 

[fishonjazz]

It has nothing to do with oil or resources. We don't go into Africa because it's not a geo-political threat that the other side is entering.

I'm not sure how I feel about the role of a nation in this type of work, but it's very saddening how poverty stricken some places of the world are in this day and age, including in our own back yard.

Good answer.

 

[franklin]

I'd like to see heavy investment in Africa. Power generation, farming, education, healthcare, infrastructure...no strings attached.

Here is a funded program for 150 doctors Chad and 5 clinic for them to work at. Bye!

Hi Nigeria send us 150 people to train in various fields needed to run a power generator we are willing to build for you. Bye!

Hi Libya! Here is a new method of irrigation that will vastly improve farming for you and 250 mil to make it happen. Bye!

Exporting human capital is a huge problem for many impoverished nations, and a huge boon to the US. Paying that back is a great idea.