Erin Andrews - Awarded $55M

[jimmy eat jazz]

Fish, no one is saying that there is no other option than to be devastated. Andrews has stated in detail how this has affected her and she claims that it was devastating. So for her, it wasn't just no big deal. She said that long before she got a judgement for millions.

So to keep pounding the point home that maybe she didn't mind, that some women show their bodies and it's no big deal, you're minimizing how she says it affected her. Like she's just a big 'ol wimp for not sucking it up and shrugging it off, because other, better women would have dealt with it better.

I get what you're saying. I just don't get why you want to keep saying it.

Here's yet another story of the shiite women have always had to endure, and will always have to endure, at the hands of men (not all men, but many men): https://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/park-rangers/. There have been a number of articles as of late of the endemic sexual harrasment women in Silicon Valley face. Same on Wall St., same in Hollywood (interesting, Silicon Valley and Hollywood being bastians of liberal politics), same . . . just about every where.

Perhaps these women should just shrug it off too, perhaps they're just playing the victim, other women might not be so bothered by this sort of stuff, so maybe they shouldn't be either.

Unless women do stand up, play the victim (as they are) and make and issue of it, and unless the rest of us stop diminishing this stuff in the good ol' boy way, this crap will never stop, or at least will never be reduced. Those of use who downplay any of this crap are serving as enablers for those scum who prey on and violate the privacy or worse of the vulnerable.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

Do you find it at all ironic that many of the same people who are saying that our sex education system and our societal attitudes toward sex are so outdated (I agree with them, BTW) are also saying that this particular violation of sexuality is deserving of a huge financial award at the expense of a company that was tangentially involved?

I believe Andrews testimony when she says that this has impacted her so negatively, but I think that many people experience much, much worse violations every single day. I think the course that this case has taken is absolutely ridiculous.

I'm not sure if this post was in part targeted at me. I would point out that I've stated that on the surface, the award seems excessive to me. I haven't paid much attention to the debate here as to the appropriateness of the award, so I don't feel qualified to comment on it, other than just in passing.

I should also say that ALL of my comments on the prudishness of US society related to sex assumes consensual sexual acts. Being filmed nude without consent is, well, non-consensual.

Finally, as I've argued, the fact that much worse violations occur every day is, in my view, irrelevant. There's very few bad things that happen to people that could not possible have been much worse. I guess she could have been kidnapped, murdered, raped, etc. by this guy, so I guess that makes what he did not such a big deal?

My main issue with this is that so many men here have made little to no effort to put themselves in the place of women, who face this kind of sexual harrasment crap all the time. We don't imagine this happening to us until we come across a story like this, and when we do, we lack the experience/context to understand how it all fits into a pattern of systemic sexual harrasment against us. Women experience these things differently, because fear of sexual harrasment, or actual sexual harrasment, are a daily part of their lives or of their reality and not some unlikely abstraction as it is for us men.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

I'm not sure if this post was in part targeted at me. I would point out that I've stated that on the surface, the award seems excessive to me. I haven't paid much attention to the debate here as to the appropriateness of the award, so I don't feel qualified to comment on it, other than just in passing.

I should also say that ALL of my comments on the prudishness of US society related to sex assumes consensual sexual acts. Being filmed nude without consent is, well, non-consensual.

Finally, as I've argued, the fact that much worse violations occur every day is, in my view, irrelevant. There's very few bad things that happen to people that could not possible have been much worse. I guess she could have been kidnapped, murdered, raped, etc. by this guy, so I guess that makes what he did not such a big deal?

My main issue with this is that so many men here have made little to no effort to put themselves in the place of women, who face this kind of sexual harrasment crap all the time. We don't imagine this happening to us until we come across a story like this, and when we do, we lack the experience/context to understand how it all fits into a pattern of systemic sexual harrasment against us. Women experience these things differently, because fear of sexual harrasment, or actual sexual harrasment, are a daily part of their lives or of their reality and not some unlikely abstraction as it is for us men.

I believe I'm a sensitive guy, but when I read a post like this I think, "Holy ****. Thank God I'm not that sensitive." Seems exhausting.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

I believe I'm a sensitive guy, but when I read a post like this I think, "Holy ****. Thank God I'm not that sensitive." Seems exhausting.

Interesting. I'd not call it being overly sensitive to acknowledge the reality of sexual harrasment that many women face, and simultaneously, suggesting that men, who don't face the same reality, may have a hard time empathizing with it.

When I read your post, and that of others on this thread, I think "Holy ****, thank God I'm not that callous."

I'm reasonably certain, moreover, that were this become your reality too in some way, either against you or a woman/girl you love, you'd discover that you're a whole lot more sensitive about this than you thought you were.

 

[fishonjazz]

Ok, fair enough. Can we agree, however, that how you think (in the abstract) you might feel if this happened to you hypothetically, does not necessarily set the standard for how someone should actually feel when it actually happens to her?

For sure. I have taken the unpopular stance and certainly pushed my stance more than necessary in order to spark discussion.

Also, the quality/length/angle of the video is a HUGE factor in how I feel about her violation. I mean after seeing this thread I looked up and watched the video. I still have no idea what erin andrews looks like naked. I have no way to even know that the person in the video is really erin andrews. Hell, it could be a guy in the video. I didn't get turned on by the video even a tiny bit. I guarantee I will never watch it again. It was a piece of crap.

If it were a better made video then I would feel much much worse for her but the actual video doesn't even really show erin andrews nude body it simply shows a humanoid shape of blurriness with no detail at all

 

[fishonjazz]

Here's yet another story of the shiite women have always had to endure, and will always have to endure, at the hands of men (not all men, but many men): https://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/park-rangers/. There have been a number of articles as of late of the endemic sexual harrasment women in Silicon Valley face. Same on Wall St., same in Hollywood (interesting, Silicon Valley and Hollywood being bastians of liberal politics), same . . . just about every where.

Perhaps these women should just shrug it off too, perhaps they're just playing the victim, other women might not be so bothered by this sort of stuff, so maybe they shouldn't be either.

Unless women do stand up, play the victim (as they are) and make and issue of it, and unless the rest of us stop diminishing this stuff in the good ol' boy way, this crap will never stop, or at least will never be reduced. Those of use who downplay any of this crap are serving as enablers for those scum who prey on and violate the privacy or worse of the vulnerable.

Good post

 

[Deleted member 848]

I believe I'm a sensitive guy, but when I read a post like this I think, "Holy ****. Thank God I'm not that sensitive." Seems exhausting.

this is rather cringe-worthy. Joe.

It's post like these that assert the still-relevant importance of feminist movements. There's clearly work that needs to be done.

 

[Deleted member 848]

For sure. I have taken the unpopular stance and certainly pushed my stance more than necessary in order to spark discussion.

Also, the quality/length/angle of the video is a HUGE factor in how I feel about her violation. I mean after seeing this thread I looked up and watched the video. I still have no idea what erin andrews looks like naked. I have no way to even know that the person in the video is really erin andrews. Hell, it could be a guy in the video. I didn't get turned on by the video even a tiny bit. I guarantee I will never watch it again. It was a piece of crap.

If it were a better made video then I would feel much much worse for her but the actual video doesn't even really show erin andrews nude body it simply shows a humanoid shape of blurriness with no detail at all

- t's not a blob, man. There is quite a bit of detail
- filming someone naked without their consent, and then uploading a video online is sexual assault
- unfortunately we live in a world where people constantly rip on/disrespect female sportscasters, reducing them to their bodies. A controversy like this would cripple any sportscasters career and credibility, even though it was NOT her fault for it.

Not to mention the psychological trauma of seeing videos of your body all over the internet, your family members all seeing it, your name not being able to show up on google without immediate reference to it.

That dude really ****ed her life up, plain and simple. Your "hypothetical" of "what if she didn't mind it" is simply insanely disrespectful, because spending 10 minutes looking at her in court proceedings, or reading transcripts of the things she says immediately refute this notion. You'd have to be a complete ****ing moron to think that she's making it all up. It's a hypothetical/devil's advocate stance that just minimizes the legitimacy of women living in an extremely sexist world, and she deserves every penny that she gets.

 

[b_line]

I believe I'm a sensitive guy, but when I read a post like this I think, "Holy ****. Thank God I'm not that sensitive." Seems exhausting.

Are you joking, or just an *******?

 

[fishonjazz]

- t's not a blob, man. There is quite a bit of detail

If she were to deny that it was her on the video then I would totally believe her.
Like I said, I watched the video. I still have no idea what erin andrews looks like naked (this is a good thing, I think)
If that video was made and the video maker said it was ellen degeneres then I would have to assume that it's true.

I have agree many times that what the guy did was a crime and it's despicable. He should go to prison.
My whole arguement was that 55 million seemed like too much. That is simply my opinion and I have been bashed for it accordingly so you don't really need to.

I feel bad for anyone whose life would get turned upside down and be super ashamed and embarrassed by the video I watched. I hope that my daughter is a bit stronger and has a bit thicker skin that she would be just fine if she ever got filmed like this. I would say that there is a good chance, in the day and age we live in, that someone will see her nude without her wanting them to. Maybe her top comes down when she jumps into a swimming pool and someone gets a quick photo with their camera phone. Maybe a schoolmate go into the girls locker room and catches a peek at her naked. Maybe she sexts a picture to a boyfriend and others see it too. Hopefully none of those things happen to her and if they do hopefully she will get millions after the fact and hopefully she will be strong and balanced and emotionally stable enough to shrug it off and move on.

Many bad things will happen in her life. I will try to prepare her as well as possible for those things.

 

[JazzGal]

Let me boil down the women's rights movement into four little words (for those of you who do not seem to yet understand):

IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU!

The source of Erin Andrews' pain and anguish has nothing to do with whether you are turned on by her video or whether you think it is good porn. She has feelings completely outside the realm of how it impacts a man. That seems to be a difficult concept for so many men to grasp (but thanks to those of you who get it). I understand that it is the culture with which you were raised, generations on end, but that is no excuse to dismiss becoming more enlightened on women's issues when they are explained to you. There is no excuse for shutting your mind to empathy for another person's experience even if it outside your own experience. It's time to let go of the idea that a woman's sole function is to please a man.

Let me give you a small personal example. I'm 55 years old and no longer fit into the world's idea of beauty (if I ever did), and I no longer have to endure catcalls, rude comments, and stalkers like I did when I was younger. Yet it amazes me how often a man will tell me to "smile," or even add "you are so much prettier when you smile." Really? Like my sole purpose is to be ornamental? I do not plaster a smile on my face while I am concentrating on a difficult account at work. But some men believe that since they prefer a smiling woman, it is her duty to accommodate them, no matter what she is experiencing at that moment. Think about how often you hear a man tell another man to smile, and then how often you hear a man tell a woman.

Every woman you know has a million stories of being treated as less than an autonomous person.

 

[ConradA24]

Guys! The point isn't how good of quality the video is! If that happened to me, I would be devastated, feel violated, lose faithin humanity, trust, etc... and it has nothing to do with being prudish. It's the fact that it happened at all in the first place. I can't even imagine.

Keep fighting the good fight Jimmy Jazz and Dalamon and those of you that see this isn't right.

I'm quite appalled at some of the responses here. Ugh.