Erin Andrews - Awarded $55M

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Interesting. I'd not call it being overly sensitive to acknowledge the reality of sexual harrasment that many women face, and simultaneously, suggesting that men, who don't face the same reality, may have a hard time empathizing with it.

When I read your post, and that of others on this thread, I think "Holy ****, thank God I'm not that callous."

I'm reasonably certain, moreover, that were this become your reality too in some way, either against you or a woman/girl you love, you'd discover that you're a whole lot more sensitive about this than you thought you were.

Maybe a better way to say it is that I don't feel the immense responsibility you apparently do for all of these perceived crimes of man against women. It feels like you are implying that being a man is a crime. It seems like you believe that women suffer constant and ongoing harm because of the existence of men. I don't think that's true, even though there are obviously specific occasions where it does happen.

I feel like its my responsibility to treat the women I come in contact with respectfully, and I also want to defend the women I care about. Events like the Andrews situation matter to me and I am glad the perpetrator is in jail, but I believe that spreading the net to include the hotel chain is going way too far. To me it would have been reasonable to fine them $500,000 because of negligence, inform them how this perpetrator used their own systems to locate his target, and tell them if that situation isn't rectified within 6 months that they would be facing a $55 million dollar fine. I think they would probably get things fixed quickly under that scenario.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Let me boil down the women's rights movement into four little words (for those of you who do not seem to yet understand):

IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU!

The source of Erin Andrews' pain and anguish has nothing to do with whether you are turned on by her video or whether you think it is good porn. She has feelings completely outside the realm of how it impacts a man. That seems to be a difficult concept for so many men to grasp (but thanks to those of you who get it). I understand that it is the culture with which you were raised, generations on end, but that is no excuse to dismiss becoming more enlightened on women's issues when they are explained to you. There is no excuse for shutting your mind to empathy for another person's experience even if it outside your own experience. It's time to let go of the idea that a woman's sole function is to please a man.

Let me give you a small personal example. I'm 55 years old and no longer fit into the world's idea of beauty (if I ever did), and I no longer have to endure catcalls, rude comments, and stalkers like I did when I was younger. Yet it amazes me how often a man will tell me to "smile," or even add "you are so much prettier when you smile." Really? Like my sole purpose is to be ornamental? I do not plaster a smile on my face while I am concentrating on a difficult account at work. But some men believe that since they prefer a smiling woman, it is her duty to accommodate them, no matter what she is experiencing at that moment. Think about how often you hear a man tell another man to smile, and then how often you hear a man tell a woman.

Every woman you know has a million stories of being treated as less than an autonomous person.

I don't talk to women like that, but I've obviously heard those sorts of statements and much worse. We used to have this old neighbor who would say extremely inappropriate things to women. He made those sorts of comments to my ex wife. Not only did she laugh, she'd give him a hug. Other women who I saw did the same. I hope my daughters will be able to laugh that sort of stuff off too. Can I see why some women find it offensive? Yeah. Do I think that's a fight worth fighting? No.

 

[JazzGal]

I don't talk to women like that, but I've obviously heard those sorts of statements and much worse. We used to have this old neighbor who would say extremely inappropriate things to women. He made those sorts of comments to my ex wife. Not only did she laugh, she'd give him a hug. Other women who I saw did the same. I hope my daughters will be able to laugh that sort of stuff off too. Can I see why some women find it offensive? Yeah. Do I think that's a fight worth fighting? No.

I'm not disagreeing with you. Most of the battles are not worth fighting. I give an insincere smile when requested so the guy will go away happy and I can go back to my "bitch resting face."

It is not a main focus in my life to educate the men around me about women's rights. I say insensitive things to people as well, but I hopefully recognize it when it happens and try to do better the next time. And I try really hard (and often fail) to let other people experience what they experience without interjecting my interpretation on it.

 

[fishonjazz]

Guys! The point isn't how good of quality the video is! If that happened to me, I would be devastated, feel violated, lose faithin humanity, trust, etc... and it has nothing to do with being prudish. It's the fact that it happened at all in the first place. I can't even imagine.

Keep fighting the good fight Jimmy Jazz and Dalamon and those of you that see this isn't right.

I'm quite appalled at some of the responses here. Ugh.

I'm interested in the specific things said in this thread that have appalled you.

 

[fishonjazz]

Yet it amazes me how often a man will tell me to "smile," or even add "you are so much prettier when you smile." Really?

It offends you when men tell you that you look better when you smile?

Would it offend you if a woman said you look prettier when you smile?


I have been told many times by women that I look better when I smile. I don't think I do so often in pictures I don't smile and then I have women tell me that I should have smiled in the picture cause I look better when I smile.

I did not get offended by this. Should I have got offended? Was I doing something wrong by not getting upset when they told me I look better when I smile?

 

[BabyPeterzz]

IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU!

Apparently this is not sinking in. Yet.

 

[fishonjazz]

Apparently this is not sinking in. Yet.

So others can share their experiences and opinions but not the people who have had different experiences and opinions? Interesting.

I never said the way she felt was wrong or not ok. I just shared a different, apparently wrong, perspective that I had.

 

[Deleted member 848]

It offends you when men tell you that you look better when you smile?

Yes, because it's rooted in the expectation that a woman's significance is proportional to her beauty-- and that if she aint beautiful, she isn't worth respecting. This is still a categorical truth in today's society. How many unattractive female sports analysts are there again? It's triggering because it's a reminder of what women have to put up with DAY IN DAY OUT--

while no one gives a **** if men look like train wrecks (which they often do in the US, aka the worst-dressed nation on the planet).

Would it offend you if a woman said you look prettier when you smile?

If it was a woman who is distant (and not close to you), it would be an unfortunate reminder of how this woman has completely had her viewpoints hijacked by a patriarchal society.

I have been told many times by women that I look better when I smile. I don't think I do so often in pictures I don't smile and then I have women tell me that I should have smiled in the picture cause I look better when I smile.

You also don't give two ****s about being unattractive past being able to wheel women.

Women have to fight being unattractive every day in their lives. Just look at the ****ing contrast between the amount of dollars you spend on cosmetics (0) vs. women out there.

I did not get offended by this. Should I have got offended? Was I doing something wrong by not getting upset when they told me I look better when I smile?

You're looking at things superficially. Try looking at the foundations of our society that lead to sexism. Then you'll understand the importance of feminist movements.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

It offends you when men tell you that you look better when you smile?

Would it offend you if a woman said you look prettier when you smile?


I have been told many times by women that I look better when I smile. I don't think I do so often in pictures I don't smile and then I have women tell me that I should have smiled in the picture cause I look better when I smile.

I did not get offended by this. Should I have got offended? Was I doing something wrong by not getting upset when they told me I look better when I smile?

I think you'd look better in pictures with your socks off. Just my opinion. Feel free to get offended if you want.

 

[moevillini]

It offends you when men tell you that you look better when you smile?

Would it offend you if a woman said you look prettier when you smile?


I have been told many times by women that I look better when I smile. I don't think I do so often in pictures I don't smile and then I have women tell me that I should have smiled in the picture cause I look better when I smile.

I did not get offended by this. Should I have got offended? Was I doing something wrong by not getting upset when they told me I look better when I smile?

I think part of it is the very patronizing way it's said when a man says it to a woman. And the fact that a man feels no compunction saying something like that to a strange woman, completely out of the blue and unsolicited. Very few women would ever feel compelled to make a similar comment out of the blue to a random man.

Then again, I haven't read through the thread since about page one or two, so I'm probably not even on topic.

 

[ConradA24]

I'm interested in the specific things said in this thread that have appalled you.

Maybe I should have stayed out of this since I'm just drive by posting while dropping kids off at school and I don't have the time to find direct quotes and all that.

I object to: the gist that some women are like Pamela Anderson and are okay with nude pictures/ videos being taken of them. The attitude of "Well, other people have it worse, so suck it up buttercup". Don't have boundaries, because that's a sign of being prudish. The general disregard for how people might be feeling, whether you think they are being too sensitive or not.

Maybe I didn't interpret what was actually being said, but that is how it came across.

Empathy goes a long way...

 

[fishonjazz]

I think part of it is the very patronizing way it's said when a man says it to a woman. And the fact that a man feels no compunction saying something like that to a strange woman, completely out of the blue and unsolicited. Very few women would ever feel compelled to make a similar comment out of the blue to a random man.

Then again, I haven't read through the thread since about page one or two, so I'm probably not even on topic.

Well said. Im sorry that those men made her uncomfortable when saying that she looks better when smiling. That sucks that she felt way.

I hope that if I tell a woman she has a pretty smile I don't hurt her that has never been my intention