Erin Andrews - Awarded $55M

[fishonjazz]

This is the worst possible hope for your daughters, if I'm being honest.


You're saying that the onus is on women to "deal with" verbal abuse. Boys will be boys, amirite guys!! Women are encouraged to 'laugh it off'??


Jesus.

If I could teach the rest of the world to be kind and not be offensive and perverted to my daughter then that is what I would do.
Unfortunately I can't so I'm gonna try to teach my child to look at the big picture in situations...try to teach her what I was taught about sticks and stone may break my bones but words will never hurt me. Don't sweat the small stuff and all that. The alternative is that she is upset and sad and angry allot of her life. She is carrying emotional baggage with her. There is allot of offensive bad stuff in the world and I want her to be as happy as possible despite that fact so I hope to minimize her sadness, emotional baggage, anger, fear, mistrust, etc as much as possible.
Does that make me a bad father because I hope she doesn't get offended easily and hope she has thick skin? Maybe. I hope not

 

[ConradA24]

Fish, (and Joe, etc...)
I don't doubt that you're a good guy (good husbands, great dads) and I'm guessing ultimately we really do all want the same goal. Happy, well-adjusted children. So I hope we're just mis-firing on communicating that. Of course I wouldn't want people to be depressed and bouncing back is the ultimate goal. I'll teach you something about raising kids... you need empathy, lots of it. That doesn't mean they get out of things, the complete opposite. A little bit of, "I'm sorry that you went through that and are feeling this way", and then some, "how can I help you?" but letting them fix it.

I want my daughters and everyone else's to have a sense of humor, and be able to let things roll off their back, but I also want them to know that if someone is saying or doing inappropriate things that they don't just "have to deal with it, and take it." They can leave, they can say something, they are empowered to change the situation, etc... RAWR! I want them to know how a good man needs to treat them, and to not settle for anything less, but they need our support and us showing them how to do that. That's all I'm saying.

 

[fishonjazz]

Fish, (and Joe, etc...)
I don't doubt that you're a good guy (good husbands, great dads) and I'm guessing ultimately we really do all want the same goal. Happy, well-adjusted children. So I hope we're just mis-firing on communicating that. Of course I wouldn't want people to be depressed and bouncing back is the ultimate goal. I'll teach you something about raising kids... you need empathy, lots of it. That doesn't mean they get out of things, the complete opposite. A little bit of, "I'm sorry that you went through that and are feeling this way", and then some, "how can I help you?".

I want my daughters and everyone else's to have a sense of humor, and be able to let things roll off their back, but I also want them to know that if someone is saying or doing inappropriate things that they don't just "have to deal with it, and take it." They can leave, they can say something, they are empowered to change the situation, etc... RAWR! I want them to know how a good man needs to treat them, and to not settle for anything less, but they need our support and us showing them how to do that. That's all I'm saying.

Nothing to nit pick about or argue about in that post!
If the same erin andrews thing happened to my daughter I would want her to speak up and go after the guy who did it because what he did was wrong.... And then I would hope that it didn't hurt her much at all and that she would quickly move on from it and forget about it. I would hope that she doesn't lose faith in humanity and lose trust in all men and be scared all the time and have it effect the rest of her life. That would suck imo.

 

[Deleted member 848]

If I could teach the rest of the world to be kind and not be offensive and perverted to my daughter then that is what I would do.
Unfortunately I can't so I'm gonna try to teach my child to look at the big picture in situations...try to teach her what I was taught about sticks and stone may break my bones but words will never hurt me. Don't sweat the small stuff and all that. The alternative is that she is upset and sad and angry allot of her life. She is carrying emotional baggage with her. There is allot of offensive bad stuff in the world and I want her to be as happy as possible despite that fact so I hope to minimize her sadness, emotional baggage, anger, fear, mistrust, etc as much as possible.
Does that make me a bad father because I hope she doesn't get offended easily and hope she has thick skin? Maybe. I hope not

this is the short-term solution-- but what happens is that this becomes the only solution proposed.

Instead of a societal-shift in addressing how sexist some of this **** is, what ends up happening is that we just keep telling women to roll with the punches, and nothing changes.

Of course if someone cat-called my mother today and she came home crying, I would try to comfort her, and tell her that it's okay, and try and help her be strong.

But if this was ALL that I did, then I'd be a bad son.

The onus is on every single one of us, men and women, to be involved in the fight against sexism, and against the unfair assault of our sisters.

Complacency in this issue unfortunately makes us almost as bad as the perpetrators. This is the key.

 

[♪alt13]

again, it's a reminder of the paramount obligation of women to be beautiful. You really need to consider this.

From the moment a girl is born, society will preach to her that being beautiful is more important than anything else. This isn't true for sons.

And it's ********. That's what this is all about.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, If I am perhaps you can clarify your point for me.

This post sounds a whole lot like the kind of thing a victim blamer would say. Your statement seems to me to make a judgement about the sexuality of women. It seems to imply that there is something wrong with a woman wanting to be beautiful. I just don't think that it is anyone's place to decide that for any other individual let alone for half the worlds population. Is it not reasonable for a woman to want to be beautiful even sexy and still be treated with respect? Would you say that these two things mutually exclusive?

 

[Deleted member 848]

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, If I am perhaps you can clarify your point for me.

This post sounds a whole lot like the kind of thing a victim blamer would say. Your statement seems to me to make a judgement about the sexuality of women. It seems to imply that there is something wrong with a woman wanting to be beautiful. I just don't think that it is anyone's place to decide that for any other individual let alone for half the worlds population. Is it not reasonable for a woman to want to be beautiful even sexy and still be treated with respect? Would you say that these two things mutually exclusive?

No, what I'm getting that is that women never have the ****ing choice. Hate it or love it, they are going to need to prioritize being beautiful if they are to win the respect of our sexist society. There is absolutely nothing wrong with priding yourself on whatever the social-construct of beauty happens to be. The problem is that this is unfairly deified for women, and it leads to the slew of problems that our sisters face today. The choice is ours for men-- it isn't for women.

It's just like the stay-at-home-mom thing from a few weeks ago. There is nothing wrong with choosing to do this as a 'career'-- however it becomes problematic when it becomes the only choice.

 

[ConradA24]

Nothing to nit pick about or argue about in that post!
If the same erin andrews thing happened to my daughter I would want her to speak up and go after the guy who did it because what he did was wrong.... And then I would hope that it didn't hurt her much at all and that she would quickly move on from it and forget about it. I would hope that she doesn't lose faith in humanity and lose trust in all men and be scared all the time and have it effect the rest of her life. That would suck imo.

Agreed. But those would most likely be the short term affects and healing has no time table... I do think a lot of comes down to the kind of support (Empathy! ) you have as well.

 

[JazzGal]

Fish, I'm sorry that you have to live through such terrible experiences. I'm glad you've been able to move past it.

 

[fishonjazz]

Fish, I'm sorry that you have to live through such terrible experiences. I'm glad you've been able to move past it.

Thank you! That means allot.

I think that sometimes there is pressure on a man to just man up when something bad happens to them, which can be a good thing but isn't always the right or best thing, and I don't have my daughter yet so I'm probably projecting, in this thread, some of what I have been taught onto my fellow jazzfanzers.

I bet I will become allot more sensitive to these kinds of things when I have my daughter.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Fish, (and Joe, etc...)
I don't doubt that you're a good guy (good husbands, great dads) and I'm guessing ultimately we really do all want the same goal. Happy, well-adjusted children. So I hope we're just mis-firing on communicating that. Of course I wouldn't want people to be depressed and bouncing back is the ultimate goal. I'll teach you something about raising kids... you need empathy, lots of it. That doesn't mean they get out of things, the complete opposite. A little bit of, "I'm sorry that you went through that and are feeling this way", and then some, "how can I help you?" but letting them fix it.

I want my daughters and everyone else's to have a sense of humor, and be able to let things roll off their back, but I also want them to know that if someone is saying or doing inappropriate things that they don't just "have to deal with it, and take it." They can leave, they can say something, they are empowered to change the situation, etc... RAWR! I want them to know how a good man needs to treat them, and to not settle for anything less, but they need our support and us showing them how to do that. That's all I'm saying.

I'm in full agreement. I'm sure a lot gets lost in translation when communicating only via text. My life is full of women who are important to me (including three daughters who I'm crazy about). Women's rights are important to me. That doesn't mean there is no limit to how far I believe they should be taken. The Andrews verdict crossed my limit by a wide margin.

I have very negative feelings about the impacts these sorts of lawsuits are having on our society. I am not saying there aren't appropriate instances, but even in those situations it usually goes way too far. My mom died of cancer a couple of years ago. Her illness was determined to be the result of a hormone replacement therapy she had been prescribed. Predictably, our family was approached by lawyers and others who said we should join a class action lawsuit. it was my dad's choice. He didn't do it because he feels similar to me about this situation. He definitely gave up money he would have won if he had pursued his case, but the principal of taking personal responsibility was more important to him. I greatly respect him for that.

 

[♪alt13]

No, what I'm getting that is that women never have the ****ing choice. Hate it or love it, they are going to need to prioritize being beautiful if they are to win the respect of our sexist society. There is absolutely nothing wrong with priding yourself on whatever the social-construct of beauty happens to be. The problem is that this is unfairly deified for women, and it leads to the slew of problems that our sisters face today. The choice is ours for men-- it isn't for women.

It's just like the stay-at-home-mom thing from a few weeks ago. There is nothing wrong with choosing to do this as a 'career'-- however it becomes problematic when it becomes the only choice.

That's not what I have observed.

Where I currently work my boss is a woman, her boss is a woman, and her boss is also a woman. None of them wear makeup, skirts, or really do anything that I can think of that prioritizes their beauty. I mean they look respectable and clean like anyone else but they don't do anything that would fit your description of society. The women that do wear makeup tend to be older, say around fifty(not all but most are older). My wife is a GM and doesn't get all done up to go to work sometimes she wears makeup but most of the time she doesn't. Most of my female friends don't wear makeup to work, neither do my sisters. My child's pediatrician is a woman and she doesn't wear makeup. She wears jeans and a lab coat. The woman that owns the gas station down the road doesn't wear makeup. She wears jeans and a polo.

Is it possible that this was an issue 20 years ago and remains an issue on college campuses but really isn't a endemic problem in today's workplace?

It seems to me that you are judging society based on high school/college experience and outdated social science curriculum.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

No, what I'm getting that is that women never have the ****ing choice. Hate it or love it, they are going to need to prioritize being beautiful if they are to win the respect of our sexist society. There is absolutely nothing wrong with priding yourself on whatever the social-construct of beauty happens to be. The problem is that this is unfairly deified for women, and it leads to the slew of problems that our sisters face today. The choice is ours for men-- it isn't for women.

It's just like the stay-at-home-mom thing from a few weeks ago. There is nothing wrong with choosing to do this as a 'career'-- however it becomes problematic when it becomes the only choice.

This sounds pretty bad. I would be very surprised if the women in my life feel that it accurately describes their situation, though.