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I think the best way to build a team is around a star.
What's the best way to get a star?
Well let's look at the teams reamaining and their stars.
Warriors: curry (drafted), thompson (drafted), green (drafted, I think. Not 100% sure)
Thunder: westbrook (drafted), durant (drafted)
Cavs: lebron (drafted originally and then free agency but we know his situation is very unique wanting to win a title for his hometown), kyrie (drafted), love (traded for.... Using a draft pick as the key piece of the trade. Wiggins.)
Raptors: derozan (drafted I think), lowry (traded for)

So looking at that list it seems that drafting and developing your own players is the best way to go. Even the ones traded for (love and lowry) are the worse players of the star players. And love was acquired because of the cavs having a good draft pick.

The jazz have done their best to get as many high draft picks as possible in the hopes of drafting and developing their own stars. They came close with Hayward and favors. A few guys on the roster could still develop into stars. They have a bunch of picks in future drafts for some more attempts in the crapshoot that is drafting a star.

Some of those teams got lucky in the lottery and moved up due to ****ing ping pong balls.

Some of those teams tanked hard (I believe curry was a result of a tank and Thompson was a result of currys injured ankles. Being great requires lots of luck) and the jazz tanked pretty hard 2 years ago bit not quite hard enough. Corbin was trying his hardest to win every game unfortunately. (Luckily corbins best efforts to win still resulted in a top 5 pick). We have lost ****ing coin tosses with other teams.

If one of our draft picks is a home run like durant, curry, westbrook, lebron or klay then we are sitting pretty.

Even the spurs. Best player is Leonard (drafted), duncan (drafted), parker (drafted), ginobli (drafted?), aldridge (free agent who wanted to go to the spurs to have a chance at a title..... Due to the fact that the spurs had a lot of good players that they drafted).
 
Who has drafted better than the Jazz the last few years? This isn't a challenge I'm genuinely curious.
 
Look at other teams that recently won titles and how they got their best player and team leader.
Dirk, wade, kobe, pierce to name a few. The team that drafted shaq won three titles.

Hitting home runs with draft picks seems to me to be the biggest key. (Free agency and trades help too but seem less important than picks which makes sense due to the fact that they are much harder to pull off) The jazz stockpiled picks as well as they could.
 
fishonjazz said:
Look at other teams that recently won titles and how they got their best player and team leader.
Dirk, wade, kobe, pierce to name a few. The team that drafted shaq won three titles.

Hitting home runs with draft picks seems to me to be the biggest key. (Free agency and trades help too but seem less important than picks which makes sense due to the fact that they are much harder to pull off) The jazz stockpiled picks as well as they could.
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I love the points but the Magic drafted Shaq
 
MDAV28 said:
Who has drafted better than the Jazz the last few years? This isn't a challenge I'm genuinely curious.
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I'm not trying to be challenging either, but let me throw this question alongside MDAV's:

Over the last few years, which other teams have whiffed on a top-3 pick (Kanter) + whiffed on a top-10 pick (Burke) + maybe whiffed on another lottery pick (Burks)?
 
NAOS said:
I'm not trying to be challenging either, but let me throw this question alongside MDAV's:

Over the last few years, which other teams have whiffed on a top-3 pick (Kanter) + whiffed on a top-10 pick (Burke) + maybe whiffed on another lottery pick (Burks)?
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Off the top of my head Kings, Cavs, Bobcats (Hornets), Wizards probably. But who else nailed late 20 picks like Gobert and Hood also?
 
I agree that drafting is the way to go.

That's why, if we have a shot at Brooklyn's pick next year, you take it.

Look at it this way:

I wanted us to tank during the strike shortened season. We could have dumped Al and Millsap and added Lillard AND Barnes to the team.

I wanted us to give up Kanter, Millsap and anyone else for Harden.

I wanted us to sit players and actually tanks when we tanked and gone after Wiggins. Luckily, I still think Exum will be a top 2 player from that draft.

My point is what GVC was saying better:

The Jazz don't know what they want. They say they want one thing, but the Miller's want another ($$$) and they start down one road, then reverse course, then reverse course again and end up doing nothing.

The Jazz had 8 million in cap room. There is NO excuse for not making the playoffs this year. Yet, they did not make the playoffs.

What happens is Utah doesn't make the playoffs next year, Hayward walks, and Hornacek does make the playoffs in NY?
 
NAOS said:
I'm not trying to be challenging either, but let me throw this question alongside MDAV's:

Over the last few years, which other teams have whiffed on a top-3 pick (Kanter) + whiffed on a top-10 pick (Burke) + maybe whiffed on another lottery pick (Burks)?
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That's a good point. the burke thing was a debacle and its probably not fair to shift the blame to corbin since DL is the one who signs off. But I think most jazz fans loved that move. (I hated it. I never thought trey would be good and I really really liked McCollum)
Burks isn't bad for #12 but we could have had kawhi (or chris singleton lol. and lol at whoever picked jan vessley that year). I wonder if the jazz would have taken klay Thompson if he was not off the board.

anywho, the draft is a crapshoot and the jazz have been pretty good overall with a few misses. The big problem is they have zero home runs. That's the key I think.
 
green said:
I agree that drafting is the way to go.

That's why, if we have a shot at Brooklyn's pick next year, you take it.

Look at it this way:

I wanted us to tank during the strike shortened season. We could have dumped Al and Millsap and added Lillard AND Barnes to the team.

I wanted us to give up Kanter, Millsap and anyone else for Harden.

I wanted us to sit players and actually tanks when we tanked and gone after Wiggins. Luckily, I still think Exum will be a top 2 player from that draft.

My point is what GVC was saying better:

The Jazz don't know what they want. They say they want one thing, but the Miller's want another ($$$) and they start down one road, then reverse course, then reverse course again and end up doing nothing.

The Jazz had 8 million in cap room. There is NO excuse for not making the playoffs this year. Yet, they did not make the playoffs.

What happens is Utah doesn't make the playoffs next year, Hayward walks, and Hornacek does make the playoffs in NY?
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Good post. I agree with all of it. I wanted the jazz to tank hard for wiggins and they blew it. Dumping millsap and Jefferson and getting lillard and barnes would be awesome. Trading for harden would have been great but I think heard that the jazz offered a really good package for him and the thunder liked the rockets package better.
The jazz have made some mistakes for sure. they could have done better.

But despite the mistakes last year they had one of the youngest and most injured teams in the league and almost made the playoffs and they have tons of cap space and tons of draft picks coming up.
So im not seeing doom and gloom. I guess my main point is that despite the screw ups the jazz have made (every team has screw ups) we still have a bright future.
 
It's funny. I felt the same as you before the playoffs. But seeing how bad Houston is, looking at Portland's starting lineup really pissed me off.

DL has done some amazing things. Like Hood. Like Gobert. But, he's screwed up big time as well. For example, I was told before the draft that we were taking Antendjsoandjsmpo with their first pick and Gobert with their second. Whoops.

Letting Millsap walk for nothing. Whoops.

Kanter...whoops.

Letting Hayward talk to other teams. Whoops.

Keeping Corbin then losing Hornacek to PHX. Whoops.

Do you fire DL if the Jazz miss the playoffs next year? What if the Jazz miss and NY makes it? What if the Jazz miss, NY makes it, and Boston trades Brooklyn's puck for a Hayward level player?

This offseason will shape this organization for years to come.

I still think Exum can become a star. I've always believed that. I've always said his rookie year is his redshirt year and to ignore it. He hasn't done anything to change my mind. I think Exum will end up between Wall and Westbrook.

BUT, that won't be for a couple more years. If that's the case, why are we holding so tightly to Favors and Hayward? It's Millsap and Jefferson all over again. Move them and build around Gobert and Exum and get that Brooklyn pick.

This organization has had chances to become a contender since Deron left and they've never gone in all the way. Here is another opportunity to get in all the way. Will we take it? Or is the Miller's making money too important?
 
green said:
It's funny. I felt the same as you before the playoffs. But seeing how bad Houston is, looking at Portland's starting lineup really pissed me off.

DL has done some amazing things. Like Hood. Like Gobert. But, he's screwed up big time as well. For example, I was told before the draft that we were taking Antendjsoandjsmpo with their first pick and Gobert with their second. Whoops.

Letting Millsap walk for nothing. Whoops.

Kanter...whoops.

Letting Hayward talk to other teams. Whoops.

Keeping Corbin then losing Hornacek to PHX. Whoops.

Do you fire DL if the Jazz miss the playoffs next year? What if the Jazz miss and NY makes it? What if the Jazz miss, NY makes it, and Boston trades Brooklyn's puck for a Hayward level player?

This offseason will shape this organization for years to come.

I still think Exum can become a star. I've always believed that. I've always said his rookie year is his redshirt year and to ignore it. He hasn't done anything to change my mind. I think Exum will end up between Wall and Westbrook.

BUT, that won't be for a couple more years. If that's the case, why are we holding so tightly to Favors and Hayward? It's Millsap and Jefferson all over again. Move them and build around Gobert and Exum and get that Brooklyn pick.

This organization has had chances to become a contender since Deron left and they've never gone in all the way. Here is another opportunity to get in all the way. Will we take it? Or is the Miller's making money too important?
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GvqX3Ia.jpg
 
Is there a Monster-sponsored drink for the University of Utah? Green's penis would explode
 
So earlier I talked about the remaining playoff teams and how they acquired their best players. That kind of a small sample size and got me curious about other teams.
So im going to go through each team and try to identify their best/most important/cornerstone/franchise player and how they were acquired.

The jazz: probably Hayward. Drafted #9. (it will be interesting to see where he stacks up against the rest of the list I think)

Celtics: Thomas. traded for from the suns

Nets: lopez. drafted #11 (that roster is a dump. straight garbage fire lol. when I looked at the roster to determine their best player I was shocked at how bad it is. They did beat us at home though lol. that one hurt)

Knicks: still melo probably (trade) though I wonder if the knicks and their fans think porz is the most important/cornerstone/franchise player. I think its still melo. traded from Denver.

76ers: lol. take your pick. Im going with embiid. drafted #3.

raptors: derozan. drafted #9

Warriors: curry. Drafted #7

Clippers: close between cp3 and griffin but I choose cp3. Traded from pelicans

lakers: lol. kobe retired so I choose either randle drafted #7 or Russell drafted #2

suns: lol. Bledsoe. traded from the clips

Kings: cousins. drafted #5

Bulls: Jimmy butler drafted #30 or derrick rose drafted #1

cavs: LeBron. Free agency

Pistons: Drummond. drafted #9

Pacers: George. Drafted #10

Bucks: giannis. Drafted #15

Mavs: dirk. Drafted #9

Rockets: Harden. traded from thunder

Grizzlies: tough call. Gasol traded from lakers or conley drafted #4

Pelicans: the brow. drafted #1

Spurs: leonard. drafted by Indiana #15 and traded to spurs on draft day

Hawks: really tough one. probably horford drafted #3, millsap free agency, or Teague drafted #19

Charlotte: Kemba. drafted #9

Heat: wade. Drafted #5

Magic: Who knows? Im going with oladipo drafted #2

Wizards: john wall. drafted #1

Nuggets: probably gallinari. Traded from the knicks

T-wolves: KAT. drafted #1

Thunder: Durant. Drafted #2

Trailblazers: lillard. drafted #6

Amazing how few were acquired via free agency. I was very surprised. Only LeBron. and his circumstance was very unique. Or millsap.

Just some info I thought would be fun to look at. Not trying to help win an argument or prove a point or anything. I was just curious and had some time so thought I would share.

Im really hoping the jazz hit a draft pick home run or one of the guys already on the team becomes a star.
 
I'd put LeBron as drafted. If any other team had drafted LeBron, I don't think he'd be in Cleveland.

The point is, the ONLY shot we have at a star is Exum
Or the draft. If Exum is a couple years away, lets maximize our chances at success and shoot for the draft.

And, as bad as Philly is, they have hope. Embiid might be in the summer league this year. They will get Simmons. They have Saric. They have Okafir. Between Okafor, Embiid and Simmons, they have three potential all stars.

We have Exum. Plus, they can attract free agents better than we can. Oh, and by the way, we've been to the playoffs as much as Philly since Deron left: once.
 
green said:
Letting Millsap walk for nothing. Whoops.
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Millsap and Jefferson leaving opened up the salary dump trade from Golden State in which we brought in Rodney Hood, Shelvin Mack, 2017 unprotected pick, and 2016 and 2017 2nd round picks. Hardly nothing.

green said:
Kanter...whoops.
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DL didn't draft Kanter did he? I don't think it's necessarily his fault to see that Kanter has talent and put faith in his new coach to develop him and keep him as a core piece. It didn't work and Kanter burned the bridge. Hindsight is 20/20

green said:
Letting Hayward talk to other teams. Whoops.
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What does this even mean? We either sign him to a max so he didn't talk to other teams or he goes and talks to other teams and we match a max?

green said:
Keeping Corbin then losing Hornacek to PHX. Whoops.
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This is so short-sighted as well. We probably ended up with the better coach.
 
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