What is wrong with the Jazz Defense

[Markusj]

It's a combination of lack of talent, the way the team is built, and coaching. I'm with Zman and Krazeeye. Whatever
Thibodeau is doing is working and if there is an assistant that knows his system, that's the guy the Jazz need to get.

 

[LogGrad98]

Personal effort.

/thread

 

[Darkwing Duck]

Darkwing

I don't mean to be contrary, but that is opposite of what Deron Williams said when he was traded. Deron said the Nets defense was weird because Sloan was always trying to force baseline and Avery was forcing middle. You may be right, but I thought it was exactly backwards. Either way I don't think it completely the power forwards fault. Favors shows hard and gets back to his man quickly and we were still getting beat by New York. Maybe the help defense needs to come from another player on the pick and roll.

Link?

Maybe on the wing pick and rolls, but as a general philosophy, the Jazz want to funnel the man with the ball into the center of the court. Harpring mentioned this against the Knicks. He mentioned Kirilenko forced Anthony on a play to go to the middle, something he's been taught, but was harping on the fact that it didn't matter since there wasn't any help coming anyway.

 

[zman1527]

Back in the 90's when the 3 point shot was rarely taken and the mid range shot was king the Jazz defense was great. The game has changed! We need to worry about the 3 point ball more and that is why Popovich has had one of the best defenses over the past decade. The rest of the league changed while we got stuck in Sloan's ways.

Steve Kerr several years back when he was commentator said that "shooters eyes light up when they head to Salt Lake" because they know they are going to get a lot of great looks.

 

[NotDeadYet]

No doubt about it; Popovich is hands down the best coach in the NBA. When the Spurs stay healthy, they are generally NBA champs...
I'm suspecting a big part of our defensive woes this year are the sheer number of new guys on the team. I'll bet they are spending most of their time on the practice court with running the Jazz offense, with little time on learning the Jazz defensive schemes. There's only so many hours in the day.
At the pro level of competition, guys are generally playing against smart players running a "system" designed and coached by smart coaches, and the old addage "there's a defense to beat any offense, and an offense to beat any defense" is as true in the NBA as in the NFL. The ideal situation is for a coach to vary both his offensive game AND defensive game to at least momentarily confuse the opponent and create turnovers or easy baskets. With new players, this is very difficult to do due to the coordination with teammates required, resulting in teams knowing what the Jazz are doing beforehand and being able to counter it much more successfully.

 

[jazzrule]

I believe it's the coach most of all. I said for the last 18 months to fire Sloan and hire Thibodeau and we missed the boat. Chicago does not have elite defenders yet they're buying into his philosophy and kicking *** on that side of the ball.

Yes back when we were having the discussion I thought I was the first to bring up Thibodeau (sp.). As usual the Jazz are a day late and a dollar short, as the saying goes. If Corbin is to survive, he needs to find a assistant defensive minded coach like coach T. was for the Celtics.

 

[One Brow]

I've read that Jerry Sloan liked to force base-line, while other teams like to force middle.

The Jazz have always tried to funnel players to the middle.

Celtics, Bulls, Thunder all play real good team defense and they switch like crazy. Whatever they are doing I think we need to employ that type of system. I think if the Jazz fixed their defense they would be winning some of these close ball games instead of finding ways to lose.

I don't think the problem is the defensive schemes.

 

[Harcher]

Does everyone realize that when guys are shooting a lot of three's it doesn't mean that we need better wing defenders. It also relates to interior defense as well. If you let them far enough into the paint than the defense sucks in and it allows open 3 point shots.

It is absolutely the defensive scheme. Greg Popovich is very stricts on never allowing 3 point shots. He says if you are guarding somebody in the corner don't leave your man. When the entire team knows which guy is staying home it allows the other players to know there role of helping. It creates structure on defense.
We haven't had structure on defense for a long time. And its chaos and that is why we all can remember guys chasing 3 point shooters for over 10 years. We have never been good at stoping the 3 point shot.
Back in the 90's when the 3 point shot was rarely taken and the mid range shot was king the Jazz defense was great. The game has changed! We need to worry about the 3 point ball more and that is why Popovich has had one of the best defenses over the past decade. The rest of the league changed while we got stuck in Sloan's ways.

Two notes
1. The Spurs have a center named Tim, who you can structure your defensive plans around.

2. The "problem" is actually opposite what you say and that is that the Jazz have a significant structrure on D. As many have noted Jerry doubles the big guy (on any team) and the team is supposed to rotate accordingly as soon as the offense does the pick and roll (all teams run pick and roll except 1ish 2ish)

When the Jazz were running this effectively late last year they were on a 21-3 run - then AK gets hurt (different topic...) and it falls apart. Durning that 21-3 run last year David Locke pointed out that the Jazz offensive efficiency did not change, but the defense. They were ranked in the top 3ish.

So the problem today is that BECUASE the Jazz rely on a structure, when it breaks down it is horrid. Thus right now with the new players, with the new coach and the attitude issues, there is simply a mess on defense. At this point they'd be better off just playing a less structured no-doubling model. And offensively strong team (like the Knicks) exposes this notably.

And that brings to the final point and that is Jerry played the 'double down' model against all teams to essentially practice the defensive plays so that the team would have it down by playoff time. (And it is also for this reason that Jerry would play the veterans 'too long.' It was to give them - the best players - the best opportunity to play together to get the offensive AND defensive system down.)

 

[Deleted member 365]

The Jazz desperately need to change their defensive philosophy.

No more are the dominate big men, Shaq, Dream, Robinson, Malone, Barkley, etc.

Today, the league is dominated by 3 point gunners.

 

[vj_74]

what's new? More idiots here thinking that it is the system that is the problem and not the players. Right, we have a bunch of all-NBA defensive team type players who have been held back by the Jazz system all these years.

 

[Jazz4ever]

what's new? More idiots here thinking that it is the system that is the problem and not the players. Right, we have a bunch of all-NBA defensive team type players who have been held back by the Jazz system all these years.

Um....we had the #1 defense in the league about two months into the season. Lowest FG% allowed and top 5 in three point % allowed. Think before typing, try it.

 

[vj_74]

Um....we had the #1 defense in the league about two months into the season. Lowest FG% allowed and top 5 in three point % allowed. Think before typing, try it.

I was ridiculing posters here who think that the problem has always been with the system and not the players all these years. In other words the idiots here like zman who ridicule Sloan's defensive philosophy as the single biggest reason as to why the team underperforms in this department. Dont get your panties in a bunch over something I didnt accuse you of.