It looks like we are 14-7 when Favors has played. Which means we are 8-7 when he is out. But I dont think that is very meaningful but I guess it does show we are better when Favors plays.
Who Derrick Favors is? Just a reminder for people with short memory
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akirac73
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I already did the research for another thread....
Since becoming full-time starters, Jazz record when playing without:
Gobert: 7-14
Favors: 26-32 (12 game losing streak without Favors spanning the 2013-14 and 2014-15 seasons)
Hayward: 16-14
We can keep our head above water when Hayward is out, but when either Gobert or Favors is out we sink like the Titanic.
fishonjazz
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So i decided to run some numbers to see if my eyes were lying to me or not.
When Favors plays any minutes at all this season Gobert averages 11.6 ppg. When Favors plays zero minutes Gobert averages 13.6 ppg.
Now some games favors only played like 5 minutes or 11 minutes or 13 minutes or 15 minutes, etc..... So not very many minutes in a decent amount of games.
So when I look at Rudy's points per game when Favors plays 20 minutes or more per game Rudy averages 9.91 points per game. When Favors plays less than 20 minutes Gobert averages 14.1 points per game.
Take it with a grain of salt for what its worth. Could have nothing to do with favors not being on the court and nothing to do with spacing. I didn't factor in the opponent and it could just be plain coincidence and rudy just happened to score better when favors wasn't around as much or could be that favors takes some touches away from rudy more than lyles and diaw do.
Idk, i just feel like rudy, as an individual, plays better with a smaller, stretchier 4 next to him cause he has more space to operate.
The stats that Ron Mexico posted are good too though as they show that the TEAM is better offensively with favors next to rudy rather than diaw or lyles. I think that stat says more about how much greater favors is than Lyles (has struggled mightily this year) and diaw (old, fat, and has struggled with his outside shot) than it says about how well rudy fits with favors vs a good stretch 4 type player on the offensive end.
I think its obvious that diaw and lyles create more space for rudy than favors does even when they are not making or taking alot of threes simply by being on the three point line and spending little time in the paint without the ball at the very least that means that their man cant stay in the paint (illegal defense rule) and they have to at least be in the area of their man that is on the three point line.
Just imagine if lyles/diaw/a good stretch four was out at the three point line and actually taking and making lots of threes. I would guess that Goberts scoring would go up even more. (obviously just a guess on my part, but the stats seem to kind of reflect that it would happen)
I just dont like the guessing. I wish we knew how he really felt. How the coaching staff feels about his health.
Ive heard some good things leak, and some negative about his condition. I hope we see Fav explode sometime soon. It would take us to another level.
We are waiting for guys like Exum, Favors, and Burks to improve/get healthy. We are holding court with out them, which makes me even more eager to see us WITH any of them taking a step! For favors it would just be returning to his form. I guess Burks too.
Ive heard some good things leak, and some negative about his condition. I hope we see Fav explode sometime soon. It would take us to another level.
We are waiting for guys like Exum, Favors, and Burks to improve/get healthy. We are holding court with out them, which makes me even more eager to see us WITH any of them taking a step! For favors it would just be returning to his form. I guess Burks too.
Getting Traded
Banned
One thing that appears to me, though it's hard for me to know, but he looks heavier than in the past and this could be affecting his mobility as well. There is little doubt that he has nowhere near the lift he had and he also seems much slower than he was. His problems could be a combination of extra weight and lack of conditioning.
Yeah, I don't think those are very meaningful, but I think you need to be blind not to see Favors' positive impact when he's going 100%. Even in his current shape, he's still our best PF and by quite some margin.
The worry about floor spacing is dumb given our current offense (the same offense nearly the entire NBA now runs).
Gobert is playing the trailer role, which spaces the floor without the need for shooting. He also sets nasty screens up top. This allows Favors to play the duck in role and transition into other action.
Diaw's only real addition to the offense has come out of the Slice action on the low block. I doubt Favors cannot play that role. Diaw is very clever from there but Favors can overpower and also make that corner 3 pass.
Gobert is playing the trailer role, which spaces the floor without the need for shooting. He also sets nasty screens up top. This allows Favors to play the duck in role and transition into other action.
Diaw's only real addition to the offense has come out of the Slice action on the low block. I doubt Favors cannot play that role. Diaw is very clever from there but Favors can overpower and also make that corner 3 pass.
Handlogten's Heros
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Won't argue the X's and O's but spacing is important in any offense... in watching the games it sure seems like Diaw ends up with the ball at the three point line a lot... and that it doesn't end well for us when it happens.
We might not play the same way if we had a big that could space the floor... and it might be more effective. Now that we have Alec and Dante back I'd like to see more lineups with Joe Johnson at the 4.
Crawlnstall
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This.
Favors is a great person, I met him at the salt lake airport this past summer and he was one of the friendliest athletes I've ever met, not that I've met any. He kinda slipped through the crowd of returning missionaries, but we talked basketball for a bit and got a picture with him.
Good dude, loves Utah. For that matter I really want him to be successful here.
fishonjazz
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Spycam also got a picture with favors.
I agree he is a great dude.
gregbroncs
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Favors was huge against Minnesota. Started the 11-0 run at the end of the game with the first 7 points.
think positive
Handlogten's Heros
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Very encouraging. Shot looked fluid... made some great movements... looked like his old self... and of course the three.
NAOS
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When Favors is shooting and hitting that 18ish footer without hesitation + all the things that franklin just said, I think our spacing is just fine.
For me, that corner 3 was easily the shot of the season if you consider the hope it gave....
Cappy_Smurf
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Yep, Favors can hit that mid-range jumper just fine, and when you have 3 other players on the floor capable of hitting the 3, it's just plain nuts to think there's a spacing problem just because Favors doesn't step back 3 more steps.
Now if Quin wanted to run PnR every time with Favors, then the spacing issues become more legitimate, but there's no reason to do that. As long as Favors is a threat to knock down the mid-range jumper, the spacing issues have always been more myth than anything.
One thing I freaking love love loved against the Wolves, was that after Favors drilled his second long jumper, I believe that Quin intentionally ran that play for him to shoot the 3. Favors has been rusty as hell, and that sequence looked like he might be starting to get back to his former self. I'd like to see Quin set him up to shoot a 3 or two every time he looks like he's feeling it from mid-range.
Cappy_Smurf
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Please take into account the teams we were playing when Favors came back compared to when he was out. There are more variables involved than simply Favors or no Favors.
fishonjazz
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No. It took me forever to get the info for my previous post. (The one about Rudy's ppg with and without favors) Sample size was pretty decent though. I'm sure we played some good teams and bad teams and some road games and home games.
I have noticed that since favors has been back Rudy's field goal percentage has continuously been dropping (he no longer leads the league). Could be coincidence though. Plus it doesn't really matter. Rudy's offense is less important than the team winning. The team is better with favors so I'm glad to have him back.
Cappy_Smurf
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**** off then.
I'll just tell ya. 2 of those 3 losses that some people used to jump to conclusions with Favors were against two of the best teams in the league, and the entire team stunk it up against the Kings. Like I said, lots of variables besides just deciding that Gobert is better without Favors because of a few games.
The spacing myth has just gotten out of control with some people.