LogGrad98
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I guess if you could perfect this you would have another weapon in you arsenal, but it still fits within the rule.
Ronnie Nunn says if ball slips out of hand on shot, it's not a travel.
- Thread starter northeast
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I guess if you could perfect this you would have another weapon in you arsenal, but it still fits within the rule.
loggrad
I think I've seen people lose the ball, pick it up, and get called for a travel, but I could be wrong.
Maybe the rules have changed on this matter. They seem to be allowing all sorts of weird stuff these days, so maybe this changed too. It is getting to where the most important skills are the ability to exploit dumb loopholes in the rules to get away with borderline cheating. Offensive players jumping into the defender to draw a foul, defenders undercutting into the offensive player to draw a foul, falling down to draw a foul, the circle created to alter the offensive foul calls, the traveling allowed all over the place, and then enforced elsewhere... What happened to only being allowed to take 2 steps if making a layup?
How do you know so much about the rules. Are you in the league?
and what do you mean by "relationship"... You were making some kind of joke I assume. Should I know you?
I think I've seen people lose the ball, pick it up, and get called for a travel, but I could be wrong.
Maybe the rules have changed on this matter. They seem to be allowing all sorts of weird stuff these days, so maybe this changed too. It is getting to where the most important skills are the ability to exploit dumb loopholes in the rules to get away with borderline cheating. Offensive players jumping into the defender to draw a foul, defenders undercutting into the offensive player to draw a foul, falling down to draw a foul, the circle created to alter the offensive foul calls, the traveling allowed all over the place, and then enforced elsewhere... What happened to only being allowed to take 2 steps if making a layup?
How do you know so much about the rules. Are you in the league?
and what do you mean by "relationship"... You were making some kind of joke I assume. Should I know you?
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
This isn't the officials being stupid, this is you not understanding the game or the rules, guy.
You can't pass to yourself, that's right. But if the ball slips out of your hand and you catch it, it's not a pass, guy, it's what's called a loose ball. If you "fumble" the ball away - it's a loose ball, you don't have to dribble because you don't have "possession" of the ball. If no possession is established, then no travel can be called.
Using this section of the rules:
Section III-Dribble
a. A player shall not run with the ball without dribbling it.
b. A player in control of a dribble who steps on or outside a boundary line, even though not touching the ball while on or outside that boundary line, shall not be allowed to return inbounds and continue his dribble. He may not even be the first player to touch the ball after he has re-established a position inbounds.
c. A player may not dribble a second time after he has voluntarily ended his first dribble.
d. A player may dribble a second time if he lost control of the ball because of:
(1) A field goal attempt at his basket, provided the ball touches the backboard or basket ring
(2) An opponent touching the ball
(3) A pass or fumble which has then touched another player
PENALTY: Loss of ball. Ball is awarded to the opposing team at the sideline nearest the spot of the violation but no nearer the baseline than the foul line extended.
In the situations I have described, including Ronnie Nunn's example...
(b), (c), (d)1 (d)2 and (d)3 all do not apply.
(a) may apply, depending on how the words are defined. It it does apply, then it says that the scenarios I have described are travels. It does not say anything about anything not being a travel, although one might argue that inference.
However, in total, the section suggests that passing to yourself is a violation, even if you do it unintentionally, (losing control of the ball) , because it is not one of the 3 exceptions to the rule in (d).
Section III-Dribble
a. A player shall not run with the ball without dribbling it.
b. A player in control of a dribble who steps on or outside a boundary line, even though not touching the ball while on or outside that boundary line, shall not be allowed to return inbounds and continue his dribble. He may not even be the first player to touch the ball after he has re-established a position inbounds.
c. A player may not dribble a second time after he has voluntarily ended his first dribble.
d. A player may dribble a second time if he lost control of the ball because of:
(1) A field goal attempt at his basket, provided the ball touches the backboard or basket ring
(2) An opponent touching the ball
(3) A pass or fumble which has then touched another player
PENALTY: Loss of ball. Ball is awarded to the opposing team at the sideline nearest the spot of the violation but no nearer the baseline than the foul line extended.
In the situations I have described, including Ronnie Nunn's example...
(b), (c), (d)1 (d)2 and (d)3 all do not apply.
(a) may apply, depending on how the words are defined. It it does apply, then it says that the scenarios I have described are travels. It does not say anything about anything not being a travel, although one might argue that inference.
However, in total, the section suggests that passing to yourself is a violation, even if you do it unintentionally, (losing control of the ball) , because it is not one of the 3 exceptions to the rule in (d).
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I can see a fumbled shot not being a travel, IF one has not already dribbled. However, if one dribbles, picks up dribble, attempts shot, loses ball with no one else touching it, takes multiple steps, goes to get possession of ball again, I would have thought that was a travel. I could be wrong. I'd like to see that rule.
Gyp Rosetti
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northeast, was your school bus shorter than most?
Archie Moses
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Seriously. No one has to touch the ball for a player to lose control of it and lose possession.
LogGrad98
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This.
And I have played ball (organized) for many years, I have coached Jr. High a couple years (volunteer, otherwise the kids couldn't play) and I have reffed at various levels including some rather vicious rec-league games. This is not just an NBA rule either, it applies pretty much at any level. It even applied at the Jr. High level, where kids fumbling the ball, botching a pass, and even a kid shooting the ball mostly straight up, then taking 3 steps and catching it when it didn't hit anything happens fairly regularly. Then the only argument was what constituted actually losing control of the ball.
But really just read the rule archie outlined. Pretty straightforward.
Okay, maybe this is allowed by convention. However, the rule outlined addresses the exceptions where having possession, losing it , moving , and regaining possession again is NOT a travel. Having the ball slip out of your hands with NO ONE ELSE TOUCHING IT is not one of the exceptions listed. The official wording of the rules implies that a travel should be called.
I think that the confusion comes that there is usually a variation involved. Usually another player touches the ball, or the player never established possession twice, or the player didn't move his pivot foot after the slip, or didn't move with the ball before the slip. However, if none of those details apply, the rules as they are written dictate that there is a traveling violation, which apparently many refs are incorrectly not calling.
The rules say that a player with the ball should lose possession of the ball for swinging his elbows aggressively, even if he doesn't hit anyone. This is is rarely called, but it is what the rule is.
I think that the confusion comes that there is usually a variation involved. Usually another player touches the ball, or the player never established possession twice, or the player didn't move his pivot foot after the slip, or didn't move with the ball before the slip. However, if none of those details apply, the rules as they are written dictate that there is a traveling violation, which apparently many refs are incorrectly not calling.
The rules say that a player with the ball should lose possession of the ball for swinging his elbows aggressively, even if he doesn't hit anyone. This is is rarely called, but it is what the rule is.