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US Pulling Out of Paris Climate Accord

Siro said:
I tend to agree. Right now, the cover used by the establishment is employment numbers. We're at full employment! Nothing needs to be done. But that will change in 10 or 20 years, when half of us lose our jobs, and McDoland's will have no need for anyone's service since the robots do all the work.

It kind of sucks that we have to wait until the situation gets that bad before we address it. But it is what it is. A couple of years ago, UBI was voted on in Switzerland, and 75% of the voters rejected it. I think most people are invested in the current paradigm, where if you're not spending your day making money for someone else, then you must be a drain on society. We'll see what happens when the capital-hoarders no longer need you to make them more money.
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I think we need a UBI now to address stagnant wages. I think a UBI alone will be insufficient in the coming decades.
 
♪alt13 said:
I think we need a UBI now to address stagnant wages. I think a UBI alone will be insufficient in the coming decades.
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I heard an idea where UBI is tied to level of automation. The more automated a company is, the more they contribute to the UBI fund. That way, the more automated an economy becomes, the bigger the payment everyone gets.

Do you think that wouldn't be enough? If so, what else can you do within the current system?
 
An agreement between countries where involvement is voluntary with no penalties is doomed from the beginning. It's not an awful idea, but it would never work.
 
I definitely think we're headed towards a UBI bc what else do we do? We've engineered so well that we no longer require the amount of workers we used to. We can't just let them rot because we don't need them.

Unfortunately, I'm not as optimistic about it. I think it will lead to a pronounced lack of productivity. If you look at groups of people who are given income for nothing, it typically doesn't result well for that group.
 
Siro said:
I heard an idea where UBI is tied to level of automation. The more automated a company is, the more they contribute to the UBI fund. That way, the more automated an economy becomes, the bigger the payment everyone gets.

Do you think that wouldn't be enough? If so, what else can you do within the current system?
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The big problem that I see with a UBI in an automated economy is the creation of an near absolute permanent propertied and unpropertied class.
 
Siro said:
I tend to agree. Right now, the cover used by the establishment is employment numbers. We're at full employment! Nothing needs to be done. But that will change in 10 or 20 years, when half of us lose our jobs, and McDoland's will have no need for anyone's service since the robots do all the work.

It kind of sucks that we have to wait until the situation gets that bad before we address it. But it is what it is. A couple of years ago, UBI was voted on in Switzerland, and 75% of the voters rejected it. I think most people are invested in the current paradigm, where if you're not spending your day making money for someone else, then you must be a drain on society. We'll see what happens when the capital-hoarders no longer need you to make them more money.
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I love this post.

There is this idea that if you're not doing your 40hrs and asking for more than you're just a bare minimum type person who doesn't care about anything. Where I work they definitely prefer the employees who beg for 60+ hrs a week. It means the person "cares" about what they do. I find it laughable that I have to give half a **** about the fortune of the company I work for. Employment is a mutually beneficial exchange. I perform work that they need done in order to operate and they compensate me for my time, which I need in order to pay for food and shelter. Devotion to your employer is a one-way street. It absolutely doesn't pay extra unless you're desperate to go from being an hourly worker to a low-level manager and they use the "cares" and "devoted" criteria when making those promotions.
 
♪alt13 said:
The big problem that I see with a UBI in an automated economy is the creation of an near absolute permanent propertied and unpropertied class.
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It is possible that the abundance created by a full-automated economy will lead to the obsolescence of property.
 
JustTheTip said:
I definitely think we're headed towards a UBI bc what else do we do? We've engineered so well that we no longer require the amount of workers we used to. We can't just let them rot because we don't need them.

Unfortunately, I'm not as optimistic about it. I think it will lead to a pronounced lack of productivity. If you look at groups of people who are given income for nothing, it typically doesn't result well for that group.
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Like people who inherit money versus those that don't? Cuz those that inherit money surely more often do better than those that don't.
 
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