Hayward is fool's gold

[LoPo]

Using a straight plus minus. Surely you know that the W's series skews these stats and would never be used by a serious analyst to judge individual performance. Hey LeBron was big-time negative against the W's -- no way he's a superstar!

Btw, Jazz were -17.7 with Hayward off the floor.

Actually, I think the Cavs outscored the Warriors over the 5 games whenever LeBron was on the court. He is that damn good.

But I see the point you were making.

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[stitches]

Actually, I think the Cavs outscored the Warriors over the 5 games whenever LeBron was on the court. He is that damn good.

But I see the point you were making.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app

They didn't, they were -7 with Lebron on the floor for the 5 games. Which BTW means absolutely nothing. I wish people would stop trying to make points using small sample +/- stats. Those are useless on small samples. This has got to be my biggest pet-peeve in NBA today.

 

[Ron Mexico]

I did note that it was 'recency biased'.

Also, I cherry-picked from a full season. Not sure that counts as cherry picking.

Also... made u look didn't I?

The best argument to make from the last few years data is that Hayward has maxed out his potential. Gallo hasn't.

Hayward has improved every year if his career. This year was his best year. He also took a step up again in the playoffs. There is no proof that he has peaked. You also are basing all this off of 1 stat that is pretty weak.

 

[LoPo]

They didn't, they were -7 with Lebron on the floor for the 5 games. Which BTW means absolutely nothing. I wish people would stop trying to make points using small sample +/- stats. Those are useless on small samples. This has got to be my biggest pet-peeve in NBA today.

I agree. +/- can be misleading. You have to admit it is pretty incredible that the Cavs were only -7 with LBJ playing considering they lost by double digits twice, 5 and 9. That 12-0 run GS went on in Game 3 when he only sat 2 minutes was a clear sign that LBJ means that much.

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[stitches]

I agree. +/- can be misleading. You have to admit it is pretty incredible that the Cavs were only -7 with LBJ playing considering they lost by double digits twice, 5 and 9. That 12-0 run GS went on in Game 3 when he only sat 2 minutes was a clear sign that LBJ means that much.

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Yeah, LeBron is an absolute monster. I haven't seen such dominance since MJ.

 

[Et tu Brute]

I'm a Sixer fan and huge Covington homer. Watch him play all the time. He will be a nice rotation piece on a great team.

You just lost all credibility by saying he will surpass Hayward.

His offensive game is limited. And 3-and-D guys usually shoot better than 35% on 3s. I could go on and on, but this point I think is obvious to everyone but you. And I think your mind is made up.

Some advanced metrics measure Covington's impact to be greater than Hayward's. Lock down perimeter D and knocking down 3s are hugely impactful. It is about impact. Not just who you think is the better player.

 

[Et tu Brute]

Hayward has improved every year if his career. This year was his best year. He also took a step up again in the playoffs. There is no proof that he has peaked. You also are basing all this off of 1 stat that is pretty weak.

You think RPM is weak?

There is less noise with that stat than PIE and PER and WINS from my understanding.

RPM so often matches the eye test.

It believes LeBron was the best player 3 out of the last 4 years. Recognizes deficiencies in players like Harden and matches the eye test with role players like Ingles and Covington.

It's the kind of stat that makes you realize the Timberwolves will always suck if KAT doesn't play defense.

 

[Ron Mexico]

You think RPM is weak?

There is less noise with that stat than PIE and PER and WINS from my understanding.

RPM so often matches the eye test.

It believes LeBron was the best player 3 out of the last 4 years. Recognizes deficiencies in players like Harden and matches the eye test with role players like Ingles and Covington.

It's the kind of stat that makes you realize the Timberwolves will always suck if KAT doesn't play defense.

It's fine, but it's 1 stat and does not tell the whole story. Hayward didn't peak a couple years ago, so if that stat is showing that it is not accurate.

 

[fishonjazz]

Hmmm.
Net rating -8.8. Sweeped out of the second round.

= Superstar

Let's face it, we were playing the best team ever assembled. The team that swept everyone in the western conference and whooped lebron James ***.

Fixed

 

[fishonjazz]

I agree. +/- can be misleading. You have to admit it is pretty incredible that the Cavs were only -7 with LBJ playing considering they lost by double digits twice, 5 and 9. That 12-0 run GS went on in Game 3 when he only sat 2 minutes was a clear sign that LBJ means that much.

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Pretty incredible the jazz were only a -8 with Hayward playing when you consider the jazz got their *** kicked every game against the warriors. At least the cavs won one game.

 

[fishonjazz]

You think RPM is weak?

There is less noise with that stat than PIE and PER and WINS from my understanding.

RPM so often matches the eye test.

It believes LeBron was the best player 3 out of the last 4 years. Recognizes deficiencies in players like Harden and matches the eye test with role players like Ingles and Covington.

It's the kind of stat that makes you realize the Timberwolves will always suck if KAT doesn't play defense.

Covington a role player? Get the **** outta here. He is a superstar hall of famer according to certain statistics

 

[Tom Pitt]

It is inconceivable to me how the Jazz FO have let them get themselves into this predicament where it feels like their whole game plan was to resign Hay.

The best player on the Jazz team by FARRRRRRRRR is Gobert. It's not even close. Based on RPM, Gobert is already a top 8 player.
They struck gold by extending him when they did.

Gordo is a really nice two way player. But that is it. He is not a top 15 player and probably never will be. What part of his game are people expecting him to improve upon? He is already perhaps maxing out his ability.

Gallinari is pretty much an equitable replacement (only 18 months older). Furthermore he can play 3 or 4. Gordo is replaceable - unlike Rudy.

The worst thing about GH leaving is the lack of compensation. That is shattering! But, think of the cap space....


Also, cause I think the sun shines out of Exum's bum, it is hard for me to get excited about the Jazz running this thing back.

He might not be a top 15 player, but he's top 25 at least. How much better is the 15th best player than him? I'm not sure it matters because you basically have to have one of the transcendent talents in the league to win it all, generally speaking, and there is only like 5 of those guys in the league right now... and then Golden State has 2 off them and will dominate the next 5 years or so.

I actually think Hayward has not reached his ceiling and is poised to make another jump... just not sure how relatively significant that jump will be.