The Jazz have acquired the 13th pick and select Donovan Mitchell
- Thread starter Flc
- Start date
Jack Strop
Well-Known Member
Just going back over some draft stuff. Charlotte was apparently locked in on Donovan...until Monk fell in their laps.
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/n...ocked-in-on-donovan-mitchell-with-no-11-pick/
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/n...ocked-in-on-donovan-mitchell-with-no-11-pick/
Supposedly Denver had a deal with someone else to trade out of 13 but the other team backed out right before Denver got on the clock.
Was that the deal for Jimmy Butler?
stormkoopacv03
Well-Known Member
Donovan Mitchell and Wade Baldwin seem somewhat similar but is Mitchell a better player and do more than Baldwin in his rookie year? I liked Wade Baldwin last year and Mitchell just seem very similar to him.
The Jazz did well in trading Trey Lyles 5 minutes before everyone realizes he isn't good.
I also hope the Jazz have learned their lesson and will no longer draft players named Trey.
I also hope the Jazz have learned their lesson and will no longer draft players named Trey.
Or be too cute with their selection. They should really just take the best player available. They basically took Trey because we were loaded with guards and lacked depth in the bigs department.
Also they seems to have put too much emphasis on the balancing test? Booker was clearly the BPA at that stage when Turner was taken. Sometimes just keeping it simple would have been the best solution.
Eh, I'm not sure Booker was clearly BPA. To this day Booker isn't much of a defender, he isn't a great creator off the dribble and he isn't terribly efficient offensively.
It's true the move to consolidate picks and move up in the draft is almost always the right move to make. The key is picking the right player when you get there. I really, really like Mitchell, but I also like John Collins who was also available. I hope this doesn't come back to bite us.
It's true the move to consolidate picks and move up in the draft is almost always the right move to make. The key is picking the right player when you get there. I really, really like Mitchell, but I also like John Collins who was also available. I hope this doesn't come back to bite us.
According to this compilation draft, Devin Booker is a good 3 spots higher than Trey Lyles.
https://jazzfanz.com/showthread.php?41237-Colton-s-2015-Mock-Draft-Compilation-v-3-0-(last-version)
They Jazz would have had this info at the time. They're not stupid. They just tried to be too cute with Lyles and the balancing test, and maybe due to our logjam in the backcourt at the time as well.
Even PKM, who I dare say loves all UK alumni, was meh with the Lyles pick.
addictionary
Well-Known Member
Why delete it?
Because it highlights Favors blowing.
You are looking at this all wrong. That 12 is Trey Lyles. A player that struggled big time last year. A player whose future is murky. Could he still improve? Sure. But it's just as possible that we saw his best play in his rookie year. He no longer holds the value of that number 12. His value has depreciated. We traded 24 and a player with depreciated value for another chance at a high upside prospect. We basically swung and missed the first time and DL found a way to give us another swing. It was a good trade.
The majority of the board loved moving up to get Burke. I got some criticism for not being happy that we did. Was not a big fan of Burke, didn't see NBA speed and worried about his ability to defend. The worse part is a player has to be special to give up two first. Burke was not.
The price to move up to get Bradley was nothing. Giving up a mid second isn't a high price especially if the Jazz really wanted Bradley. Jazz fans like all fans seem to over value the draft. Maybe if people lowered their expectations and realized that all GMs screw up picks. Success in the league is determined by the player and what team drafts him to some extent.
In the end as a fan I hope we hit two home runs but fans are going to be disappointed if they start anointing Bradley the next Tim Duncan and Mitchell the next Dwayne Wade. I see positives in both picks but I will give the guys at least to the end of their rookie contracts before I bash them for being bad picks.
I can already hear the pros/con comments after the first summer league game.... DL should have.. or Mitchell is going to be a star...Draft is unpredictable and everyone on this board has made a bad pick. Just remember Kanter at 3 and Gobert at 27, you never know.
Lakers_Slapper
Well-Known Member
I was pleasantly surprised with this trade. I thought it was great that the DL was focused on improving. He made some great magic happen in the final minutes of the picks. Great way to start the off-season.
TitoJamesIII
New Member
Hi everyone. Louisville fan and grad here. Figured I'd give some nuggets on this kid. But first I was kinda glad the Jazz took him. I don't really have an NBA team and found myself pulling for the Jazz during this years playoffs. I loved that tandem of Gordon and Rudy, so maybe it can stay in-tact.
So anyway...about Mitchell
Pros
Uber-athletic --his high school dunk videos he'd post were ridiculous.
Amazing attitude - This kid has it all with attitude. He's funny, engaging, articulate, professional. One of our beat-writers said it best - "Once teams see Donovan's measurables at the combine their jaws will drop, but once they meet with him they're gonna fall in love with this kid." His dad has been a scout/rep for an MLB team the kid's entire life. And his dad has kind of raised him for this moment, to be a professional athlete, with emphasis on the professional part. He'll definitely be one of those pillar of the community types. And to boot he's an amazinf teammate. Picture the guy who will shed all on the praise on the guys around him even after being the best guy on the court.
Rebounding - he's not Westbrook, but he has potential to be one of the best rebounding guards in the NBA. He's got a really strong core and long arms and with his slashing ability he is one of those "where did he come from rebounders" he'll steal a lot of defensive rebounds where he wasn't even in the paint when the ball gets to the rim.
Work ethic - his transformation from Fr to So year was really something. He legitimately improved in every facet of the game. One thing I noticed is that he really developed a much better finishing game. Fr year his finishing move was usually just attack the basket and try and dunk on everybody. Obviously, that's not the best NBA strategy. So he developed his footwork exponentially. He added in more drop-steps, spin moves, the cliche "Euro Step" and all the ways a guard can finish amongst the trees in the NBA. He also really developed his cross-over stepback. It became a lethat part of his arsenal that was non-existent FR year. And that's a catalyst for NBA success at the guard position. If you can create space and shake defenders to get that open jumpshot, and then nail it, you're already looking good. His shooting was noticeably better in all areas his SO year. His form was much better and he was much more confident.
Basketball IQ - he became our leader his SO year, along with Deng Adel. That's really tough in Pitino's system because he runs the most complex defenses in college basketball. You'll hear it called a matchup zone by analysts but it's not an accurate depiction. It's just the closes thing they can come up with. Louisville will switch from man to zone back to man all in one defensive position. And they're zone is referred to as a hybrid here, because it has so many different components of a man to man, such as traps, switches, personnel switches, double-teams, etc. it's really really hard to learn. It has so much to do with the scouting reports and he has that side down.
Areas for improvement
Ball handling - don't get me wrong, Donovan is a good ball-handler, so this is more the PG vs SG thing. If he's going to play PG in the NBA, he's not an elite ball-handler at the position. He's probably above average as a ball handler for a SG, perhaps even by NBA standards. I wholeheartedly think he could play either and develop these skills as needed.
Gambling on D - This is a big deal in the NBA these days. Donovan tends to gamble on a lot of passing lane steals. And it obviously worked in college because he led the ACC in steals for pretty much the entire year. But the NBA has evolved into such a 'stay in front lf your man' league. If you gamble and miss on a steal for the pass going to Klay Thompson, then Steph is wide open at the 3 pt line once the defensive rotation is enabled. Pretty much the same scenario regardless of team, since the NBA is such a 3pt shooting league now.
One shooting thing - This could be my OCD creeping in, but I feel like on the fast break that Donovan tends to float a little bit on his jumpers from outside, rather than going more straight up he tends to let his momentum carry him. And with his vertical being so good, this puts his release point lower and would allow trailing or coming defenders more opportunity to alter/block the shot. It also probably could improve his accuracy getting his body alignment better. And trust me, when Donovan's on the court, you're gonna see some running up and down the court. Kid loves to play in transition.
So anyway...about Mitchell
Pros
Uber-athletic --his high school dunk videos he'd post were ridiculous.
Amazing attitude - This kid has it all with attitude. He's funny, engaging, articulate, professional. One of our beat-writers said it best - "Once teams see Donovan's measurables at the combine their jaws will drop, but once they meet with him they're gonna fall in love with this kid." His dad has been a scout/rep for an MLB team the kid's entire life. And his dad has kind of raised him for this moment, to be a professional athlete, with emphasis on the professional part. He'll definitely be one of those pillar of the community types. And to boot he's an amazinf teammate. Picture the guy who will shed all on the praise on the guys around him even after being the best guy on the court.
Rebounding - he's not Westbrook, but he has potential to be one of the best rebounding guards in the NBA. He's got a really strong core and long arms and with his slashing ability he is one of those "where did he come from rebounders" he'll steal a lot of defensive rebounds where he wasn't even in the paint when the ball gets to the rim.
Work ethic - his transformation from Fr to So year was really something. He legitimately improved in every facet of the game. One thing I noticed is that he really developed a much better finishing game. Fr year his finishing move was usually just attack the basket and try and dunk on everybody. Obviously, that's not the best NBA strategy. So he developed his footwork exponentially. He added in more drop-steps, spin moves, the cliche "Euro Step" and all the ways a guard can finish amongst the trees in the NBA. He also really developed his cross-over stepback. It became a lethat part of his arsenal that was non-existent FR year. And that's a catalyst for NBA success at the guard position. If you can create space and shake defenders to get that open jumpshot, and then nail it, you're already looking good. His shooting was noticeably better in all areas his SO year. His form was much better and he was much more confident.
Basketball IQ - he became our leader his SO year, along with Deng Adel. That's really tough in Pitino's system because he runs the most complex defenses in college basketball. You'll hear it called a matchup zone by analysts but it's not an accurate depiction. It's just the closes thing they can come up with. Louisville will switch from man to zone back to man all in one defensive position. And they're zone is referred to as a hybrid here, because it has so many different components of a man to man, such as traps, switches, personnel switches, double-teams, etc. it's really really hard to learn. It has so much to do with the scouting reports and he has that side down.
Areas for improvement
Ball handling - don't get me wrong, Donovan is a good ball-handler, so this is more the PG vs SG thing. If he's going to play PG in the NBA, he's not an elite ball-handler at the position. He's probably above average as a ball handler for a SG, perhaps even by NBA standards. I wholeheartedly think he could play either and develop these skills as needed.
Gambling on D - This is a big deal in the NBA these days. Donovan tends to gamble on a lot of passing lane steals. And it obviously worked in college because he led the ACC in steals for pretty much the entire year. But the NBA has evolved into such a 'stay in front lf your man' league. If you gamble and miss on a steal for the pass going to Klay Thompson, then Steph is wide open at the 3 pt line once the defensive rotation is enabled. Pretty much the same scenario regardless of team, since the NBA is such a 3pt shooting league now.
One shooting thing - This could be my OCD creeping in, but I feel like on the fast break that Donovan tends to float a little bit on his jumpers from outside, rather than going more straight up he tends to let his momentum carry him. And with his vertical being so good, this puts his release point lower and would allow trailing or coming defenders more opportunity to alter/block the shot. It also probably could improve his accuracy getting his body alignment better. And trust me, when Donovan's on the court, you're gonna see some running up and down the court. Kid loves to play in transition.
Just watched a game of Mitchell. here are my notes.
Donovan Mitchell (Luisville vs Michigan) notes:
Donovan Mitchell (Luisville vs Michigan) notes:
1st half
+Starts off-ball - first defensive possession - instructs and directs teammates on a transition D while identifying a shooter on the wing and with great close out prevents a 3 in transition.
+following offensive possession - Loisville runs the same motion we do with a lot of handoffs and screens around the perimeter. Mitchell gets a step on his defender on one of those and throws a one handed pin point pass to an open shooter on the perimeter. Great read and timing.
+HOLY HELL! What a beauty! Step back with between the legs dribble 3p jumper. Defender didn't move. Frozen. Drains it. Looks fired up. Haha, claps his hands looking at his man going back on D. Gambled on D for the steal... maybe he got too excited. Didn't get punished but I'm not sure Quin would appreciate this type of a gamble.
+Another hand-off ... gets trapped by a big and his man on the perimeter... they push him out... Seems like he realizes there must be an open man if there are 2 people chasing him... he's looking for the pass, sees it... nice try, but deflected OoB by a help defender. (seems like he tried to make it a no-look... lol... he's got some flair in his game)
+good transition D, the only player that got back on D, prevents a layup.
+Shoots a 3 on out of bounds play after running through screens... it looks good coming out of his hand, but missed it.
-he seems to be talking on D and pointing to switches and rotations for his teammates. He seems alert and in good stance. Michigan is avoiding attacking him. 6 minutes into the game, they don't let him handle it much.
-open 3 from the corner, misses it. Next - nice hopstep/stepthrough/carryover, but a bit of an ambitious finish in the paint - misses.
- they are switching on D. He's guarding 6'7" wings and they are still not attacking him.
-Another hopstep/stepthrough but got his shot blocked at the rim. Covers a lot of ground with this move. Interesting. I will have to watch for it more. He seems shifty with it. He might have more wiggle than I thought initially.
-Follows his teammate in transition, gets the board finishes the fastbreak.
-Wagner buldozed him on a switch. No call.
-With time expiring attacks the middle going left, tries a tough layup through contest. Doesn't fall. Did it with left hand. Might have trouble finishing in traffic, that's third miss in traffic in the paint.
-Steals a ball from driving Wagner as a help defender. Runs the break, unselfish pass to Adel for thunderous dunk. This was more Adel than Mitchell, but still - made the right play.
- Nice crossover refusing the screen, attacks the paint and holds the ball just long enough to make the help defender commit, drops it off to a teammate for the easy dunk. Nice one.
-Some impressive jumps on rebounds with full extension to grab them. Very nice athleticism.
- Step-back 3 going left with expiring clock and through contest... drains it. Second 3 off the dribble for him. Tough shots.
- Nice recovery after being attacked on a closeout - blocks 6'10" Wilson in the paint! Runs with the ball on the fast break, waits for D to commit, passes to open 3p shooter. Nice. Makes winning plays.
2nd half
-Sweet long bounce pass in transition - his guy misses the bunny.
- seems like he rushed a bit with a pull up in the paint vs contest. Follows it with a 3 with no hesitation on the catch with 27 on the clock. This time drains it.
- Michigan is running everything away from him. I can't even evaluate his D much. They just seem to give the ball to whoever is farthest away from Mitchell. I guess it's somewhat of a statement on his D anyways.
- for a second time a an opponent passes over his head - this is where his size might not be ideal. if he was a couple of inches taller this is a much tougher pass
-Beautiful navigation vs screens, denies the pass on the weakside. Really really nice!!! I guess that's why Michigan don't even try to involve his man in plays... they would be just wasting timeclock trying to get him open.
-Takes another step back 3 off the dribble going left and this time misses. This is probably not a good shot with 20 seconds on the clock. I can't help but think Quin will not like those.
-Hahahaha, that was cute. Rahkman finally decided to try his luck vs Mitchell... almost tripped himself trying to fake Mitchell with and in and out dribble while Mitchell didn't even flinch(good feet, nice balance, good stance). Quickly gave it up afterwards.
-Split double team(they called a foul on the screener, but good to see that he can do that).
-Another pass over his head to a cutter - this seems to be his biggest weakness defensively...
-Another great pass in transition to a wide open man for a 3(missed). Seems to work well in space.
-Attacks closeout with a one dribble pull up in rhythm. Scores!
-Got switched on Wagner in the post, way too big for him, scored on him.
-They cannot beat him off the dribble. Really good lateral movement, really good footwork.
-Tough corner 3, misses.
-It's a bit weird not seeing him get the ball at all in crunchtime.
-Two consecutive finishes in the paint in crunchtime. Who would have thought giving the ball to your best player might bring some success? Too little too late.
-And one more finish after a great hesitation and good body control in the paint.
Louisville lose. Mitchel final statline - 19pts(3/8 from 3, 7/18FG), 7rbs, 5ast, 1blk, 1stl. 0to
tl;dr : He played mainly off-ball. Shows great defensive movement, fighting through screens and moving his feet. I don't think anybody beat him off the dribble the full game. Shows awareness and understanding of what the opponent wants to run and shuts it down. Michigan didn't even try to go against him when possible. Seems like a great defensive prospect. Offensively - might have more wiggle and moves than I initially thought. For example I thought he might be a bit like Wade Baldwin in last year's draft, but I have to say he showed much more than that, he has some nice stepthroughs/stepovers/hopsteps/hesitation in the paint, can splits the D on double teams. Seems to have trouble finishing against length in traffic. His shot on pull ups looks good, but the shot-selection might need some adjustment. The shot itself looks very good - tight and repeatable motion and release, ball comes out smooth out of his hand. I wouldn't be surprised if he shoots ~40% from the 3 at some point during his career. He seems to take some tough shots and if those get limited or eliminated in the league he might bump his %s significantly. He was in the 90th percentile on unguarded 3p shots, he will get some of those in our system if we manage to keep Hayward and Hood.
Donovan Mitchell (Luisville vs Michigan) notes:
Donovan Mitchell (Luisville vs Michigan) notes:
1st half
+Starts off-ball - first defensive possession - instructs and directs teammates on a transition D while identifying a shooter on the wing and with great close out prevents a 3 in transition.
+following offensive possession - Loisville runs the same motion we do with a lot of handoffs and screens around the perimeter. Mitchell gets a step on his defender on one of those and throws a one handed pin point pass to an open shooter on the perimeter. Great read and timing.
+HOLY HELL! What a beauty! Step back with between the legs dribble 3p jumper. Defender didn't move. Frozen. Drains it. Looks fired up. Haha, claps his hands looking at his man going back on D. Gambled on D for the steal... maybe he got too excited. Didn't get punished but I'm not sure Quin would appreciate this type of a gamble.
+Another hand-off ... gets trapped by a big and his man on the perimeter... they push him out... Seems like he realizes there must be an open man if there are 2 people chasing him... he's looking for the pass, sees it... nice try, but deflected OoB by a help defender. (seems like he tried to make it a no-look... lol... he's got some flair in his game)
+good transition D, the only player that got back on D, prevents a layup.
+Shoots a 3 on out of bounds play after running through screens... it looks good coming out of his hand, but missed it.
-he seems to be talking on D and pointing to switches and rotations for his teammates. He seems alert and in good stance. Michigan is avoiding attacking him. 6 minutes into the game, they don't let him handle it much.
-open 3 from the corner, misses it. Next - nice hopstep/stepthrough/carryover, but a bit of an ambitious finish in the paint - misses.
- they are switching on D. He's guarding 6'7" wings and they are still not attacking him.
-Another hopstep/stepthrough but got his shot blocked at the rim. Covers a lot of ground with this move. Interesting. I will have to watch for it more. He seems shifty with it. He might have more wiggle than I thought initially.
-Follows his teammate in transition, gets the board finishes the fastbreak.
-Wagner buldozed him on a switch. No call.
-With time expiring attacks the middle going left, tries a tough layup through contest. Doesn't fall. Did it with left hand. Might have trouble finishing in traffic, that's third miss in traffic in the paint.
-Steals a ball from driving Wagner as a help defender. Runs the break, unselfish pass to Adel for thunderous dunk. This was more Adel than Mitchell, but still - made the right play.
- Nice crossover refusing the screen, attacks the paint and holds the ball just long enough to make the help defender commit, drops it off to a teammate for the easy dunk. Nice one.
-Some impressive jumps on rebounds with full extension to grab them. Very nice athleticism.
- Step-back 3 going left with expiring clock and through contest... drains it. Second 3 off the dribble for him. Tough shots.
- Nice recovery after being attacked on a closeout - blocks 6'10" Wilson in the paint! Runs with the ball on the fast break, waits for D to commit, passes to open 3p shooter. Nice. Makes winning plays.
2nd half
-Sweet long bounce pass in transition - his guy misses the bunny.
- seems like he rushed a bit with a pull up in the paint vs contest. Follows it with a 3 with no hesitation on the catch with 27 on the clock. This time drains it.
- Michigan is running everything away from him. I can't even evaluate his D much. They just seem to give the ball to whoever is farthest away from Mitchell. I guess it's somewhat of a statement on his D anyways.
- for a second time a an opponent passes over his head - this is where his size might not be ideal. if he was a couple of inches taller this is a much tougher pass
-Beautiful navigation vs screens, denies the pass on the weakside. Really really nice!!! I guess that's why Michigan don't even try to involve his man in plays... they would be just wasting timeclock trying to get him open.
-Takes another step back 3 off the dribble going left and this time misses. This is probably not a good shot with 20 seconds on the clock. I can't help but think Quin will not like those.
-Hahahaha, that was cute. Rahkman finally decided to try his luck vs Mitchell... almost tripped himself trying to fake Mitchell with and in and out dribble while Mitchell didn't even flinch(good feet, nice balance, good stance). Quickly gave it up afterwards.
-Split double team(they called a foul on the screener, but good to see that he can do that).
-Another pass over his head to a cutter - this seems to be his biggest weakness defensively...
-Another great pass in transition to a wide open man for a 3(missed). Seems to work well in space.
-Attacks closeout with a one dribble pull up in rhythm. Scores!
-Got switched on Wagner in the post, way too big for him, scored on him.
-They cannot beat him off the dribble. Really good lateral movement, really good footwork.
-Tough corner 3, misses.
-It's a bit weird not seeing him get the ball at all in crunchtime.
-Two consecutive finishes in the paint in crunchtime. Who would have thought giving the ball to your best player might bring some success? Too little too late.
-And one more finish after a great hesitation and good body control in the paint.
Louisville lose. Mitchel final statline - 19pts(3/8 from 3, 7/18FG), 7rbs, 5ast, 1blk, 1stl. 0to
tl;dr : He played mainly off-ball. Shows great defensive movement, fighting through screens and moving his feet. I don't think anybody beat him off the dribble the full game. Shows awareness and understanding of what the opponent wants to run and shuts it down. Michigan didn't even try to go against him when possible. Seems like a great defensive prospect. Offensively - might have more wiggle and moves than I initially thought. For example I thought he might be a bit like Wade Baldwin in last year's draft, but I have to say he showed much more than that, he has some nice stepthroughs/stepovers/hopsteps/hesitation in the paint, can splits the D on double teams. Seems to have trouble finishing against length in traffic. His shot on pull ups looks good, but the shot-selection might need some adjustment. The shot itself looks very good - tight and repeatable motion and release, ball comes out smooth out of his hand. I wouldn't be surprised if he shoots ~40% from the 3 at some point during his career. He seems to take some tough shots and if those get limited or eliminated in the league he might bump his %s significantly. He was in the 90th percentile on unguarded 3p shots, he will get some of those in our system if we manage to keep Hayward and Hood.
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candrew
Well-Known Member
While I'm not crazy about The Jazz giving up on Lyles so quickly, the undeniable truth is Lyles' reaction to getting his minutes cut this past season was to sulk and not be ready when his number was called. I think many folks here can remember a few years back during the Corbin era when Earl Watson lost his rotation minutes late in a game (which I believe The Jazz ended up winning) and Watson bitching to the coaching staff afterwards which resulted in him getting his minutes right back the next night
This sends a message to the team, and the rest of the league really, that cry babies have no place in Utah.
Yeah, i still think Lyle's has upside but he needs to grow up. His struggles were purely mental. He seemingly felt like he deserved to play more or be a bigger part of the offense. He looked so promising the end of the previous season and summer league. As soon as he had some struggles, the wheels fell off for him.
A new team will probably be good for him. I hope for his sake he matures and learns to work hard and earn his minutes before he is out of the league. He has the skill set to be a really good offensive weapon.
I think it was wise for the Jazz to move on. I can't imagine he was a great locker room influence, especially on the younger players.