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Sixers ready to part ways with Igoudala.

With them already having Hansbrough and McRoberts, I think they might find Jefferson more appealing (though Sap is more than just an undersized hustle-player now). That goes for any trade.

Yeah, Jefferson could be a possibility. But that's much more of a straight up type deal. The problem is I can't see KOC thinning out our frontcourt so much to do it. Right or wrong, I think KOC is pretty committed to keeping the trio of Jeff/Sap/Favors unless he's getting a big back.
 
Yeah, Jefferson could be a possibility. But that's much more of a straight up type deal. The problem is I can't see KOC thinning out our frontcourt so much to do it. Right or wrong, I think KOC is pretty committed to keeping the trio of Jeff/Sap/Favors unless he's getting a big back.

But what if the BPA at 6 is another big? I'd draft Biyombo and send Jefferson for Granger in a more-or-less straight-up deal in a bloody heartbeat.
 
FWIW, he holds his opponent to a 9.8 PER while he produces 18.3 (best on the team). His adjusted +/- (+4.5) is second best on the team. By 82games.com's simple rating rank he is first and it's not close.

sorry, are you talking about Granger or Iggy?
 
But what if the BPA at 6 is another big? I'd draft Biyombo and send Jefferson for Granger in a more-or-less straight-up deal in a bloody heartbeat.

This is where I differ with most people. Whatever big we get at 6 is not likely to be ready for anything but a rotation role, and might not be ready period. I doubt KOC has chalked up next year to one big losing season where young guys learn. Going into the season with Sap/Favors starting, and an iffy Memo + the 6 is basically guaranteeing disaster.

By contrast, drafting a big at 6 WITH Al/Sap/Favors/Memo means one of 2 things: A) the guy can be brought along slowly; B) He can be stashed overseas for a year to develop without starting his NBA salary clock. I'm thinking KOC likes the 'B' option.
 
This is where I differ with most people. Whatever big we get at 6 is not likely to be ready for anything but a rotation role, and might not be ready period. I doubt KOC has chalked up next year to one big losing season where young guys learn. Going into the season with Sap/Favors starting, and an iffy Memo + the 6 is basically guaranteeing disaster.

By contrast, drafting a big at 6 WITH Al/Sap/Favors/Memo means one of 2 things: A) the guy can be brought along slowly; B) He can be stashed overseas for a year to develop without starting his NBA salary clock. I'm thinking KOC likes the 'B' option.

I understand what you are saying, but returning next year with essentially the same wing rotation + some picks is also guaranteeing disaster. And, if I'm not mistaken, you also hold the opinion that wings take longer to develop, and therefore any wing selected will have less probability of contributing next season.

I like Favors+Millsap alongside Granger+Hayward (with 15mpg from a guy like Biyombo or Kanter) over Al/Millsap/Favors alongside Hayward+nobody.
 
sorry, are you talking about Granger or Iggy?

Iggy. He's a good player. I don't know about $53 million over 3 years good, though. And he's going to be a grandfather relative to the eventual age of this team.
 
the thing I like about Iggy is that he is used to being front-and-center. He'd add leadership and 'face' to this franchise, both of which are needed. I absolutely would NOT go whole-hog after the dude, but if we could get him with Memo + CJ + 12th pick + something else (+/-) then I'd be pretty stoked. I have no idea how far off this is, but it certainly frees up Philly financially. I'm guessing they'd have better offers.
 
It's easier to get better at the wings than the frontline. If you give up picks and replaceable players for Granger, you get Granger with a strong frontcourt in place. If you give up Al to keep the picks, you have two problems: Favors and Sap would be one of the weakest starting frontcourts in the NBA. Second, there is historically a fairly decent chance any big taken at 6 will be a straight bust. You absolutely cannot assume the guy at 6 will be able to give you any decent minutes (at least for next season.)

In other words, what's the point of getting Granger if you're running a high risk that you'll have no frontcourt to win games?
 
It's easier to get better at the wings than the frontline. If you give up picks and replaceable players for Granger, you get Granger with a strong frontcourt in place. If you give up Al to keep the picks, you have two problems: Favors and Sap would be one of the weakest starting frontcourts in the NBA. Second, there is historically a fairly decent chance any big taken at 6 will be a straight bust. You absolutely cannot assume the guy at 6 will be able to give you any decent minutes (at least for next season.)

In other words, what's the point of getting Granger if you're running a high risk that you'll have no frontcourt to win games?

again, solid point. You don't want to bring 'indiana' along with Granger.
 
No Granger deal happens without giving up the 6. And we'd need to take back one of their bad contracts. It would look something like Granger/Posey for #6/Memo/CJ and that's not enough (doesn't quite work under the CBA, either, but it's close) They'd push for the 12 or, more likely, next year's GS pick to be included as well.

If Sap is in the deal, that lowers the price on picks, but I'd bet KOC wants to deal picks/lesser players for Granger, not guys like Sap. My guess is he'd offer the 6 and 12 and hold out on the GS pick.

6 and 12 plus players to make the money work for Granger is waaaaay too much. If Indiana wanted that I would hope the Jazz were smart enough to pass.

I agree with Jazzman12 that Sap and 12 for Granger would be a dream. Even throw in Bell if they want.
 
This is where I differ with most people. Whatever big we get at 6 is not likely to be ready for anything but a rotation role, and might not be ready period. I doubt KOC has chalked up next year to one big losing season where young guys learn. Going into the season with Sap/Favors starting, and an iffy Memo + the 6 is basically guaranteeing disaster.

By contrast, drafting a big at 6 WITH Al/Sap/Favors/Memo means one of 2 things: A) the guy can be brought along slowly; B) He can be stashed overseas for a year to develop without starting his NBA salary clock. I'm thinking KOC likes the 'B' option.

That deals with a lot of assumptions, though. I'm really only interested in Biyombo and Kanter as overseas bigs, and Biyombo just sued his former team and tore up their contract to come into the NBA. Kanter didn't go back to Europe because the only offers he was getting were multiple year deals trying to lock him up and his dream has always been the NBA. European teams aren't stupid, if they're going to invest in a player and they have a legitimate NBA career ahead of them, they try to lock them up (Tiaggo Splitter, Manu Ginobili). Long story short, there's no guarantee these guys can find a team that will just sign them to one-year deals.

And to your first point, guaranteeing disaster? Playing Al Jefferson pretty much takes care of that. I get the feeling Kanter's the real deal, but even if he takes a couple years to become a productive starter, at least he can pass and is still malleable.

I think we'd all like the Jazz to be a playoff team next year, but it's not likely and frankly success so soon might hamper the teams ability to rebuild the team into a real contender in 3-5 years. Striving for/accepting loss is a slippery slope, but I don't think it's unreasonable for the general turnover that has happened to the franchise in the last 2.5 years (Larry dying, half the roster walking or being traded, and the remaining bedrocks leaving [Jerry and Phil] and being traded [Deron]) while the keys are handed to a head coach that has never head coached and a 50 year old that spikes his hair and has a goatee (and hasn't earned a ****ing thing).
 
the thing I like about Iggy is that he is used to being front-and-center. He'd add leadership and 'face' to this franchise, both of which are needed. I absolutely would NOT go whole-hog after the dude, but if we could get him with Memo + CJ + 12th pick + something else (+/-) then I'd be pretty stoked. I have no idea how far off this is, but it certainly frees up Philly financially. I'm guessing they'd have better offers.

I don't think Philly would go for that (what you suggested works financially), but if they did, I'd have a tough time declining that offer, even with the cash he's owed over three years.
 
That deals with a lot of assumptions, though. I'm really only interested in Biyombo and Kanter as overseas bigs, and Biyombo just sued his former team and tore up their contract to come into the NBA. Kanter didn't go back to Europe because the only offers he was getting were multiple year deals trying to lock him up and his dream has always been the NBA. European teams aren't stupid, if they're going to invest in a player and they have a legitimate NBA career ahead of them, they try to lock them up (Tiaggo Splitter, Manu Ginobili). Long story short, there's no guarantee these guys can find a team that will just sign them to one-year deals.

And to your first point, guaranteeing disaster? Playing Al Jefferson pretty much takes care of that. I get the feeling Kanter's the real deal, but even if he takes a couple years to become a productive starter, at least he can pass and is still malleable.

I think we'd all like the Jazz to be a playoff team next year, but it's not likely and frankly success so soon might hamper the teams ability to rebuild the team into a real contender in 3-5 years. Striving for/accepting loss is a slippery slope, but I don't think it's unreasonable for the general turnover that has happened to the franchise in the last 2.5 years (Larry dying, half the roster walking or being traded, and the remaining bedrocks leaving [Jerry and Phil] and being traded [Deron]) while the keys are handed to a head coach that has never head coached and a 50 year old that spikes his hair and has a goatee (and hasn't earned a ****ing thing).

We obviously disagree on Al.

Can't say what the prospects are for stashing a Big overseas, but I would think that would be KOC's preference. Doesn't mean he wouldn't just bring a Biyombo or Kanter on board and let competition sort it all out. But since we have to pay Memo, I would think he'd like to rehab his value as a trade asset which means less time for the 5th big whoever it is.

I don't think KOC shares your opinion that the Jazz won't make the playoffs. I don't think he thinks we're on a 3 year rebuilding curve that necessitates losing just to play young guys. We have much more talent under contract than typical rebuilding teams. A starting unit of Harris/Hayward/Granger/(Favors/Sap)/Al can win a lot of games. The alternative is Harris/Hayward/(Miles/AK/?)/(Sap/Favors)/Al. That unit is obviously not as strong as the other one, but in that scenario KOC would be keeping his picks and building slower.
 
He's overpaid, like 4 millions a year as he deserves. He is almost paid like a superstar, but i would think about it. An athletic wing that can pass, play defense and drive to the basket, why not? depends on whether we can resign AK for 6/year or not.

I'd be interested what players you could find in the NBA making 4 million a year putting up 14ppg, 6.3apg, 5.8rpg
 
Heck no to Iggy. Iggy IS AK. We tried that. I don't want another SF that can't shoot and makes max money. In fact, screw that...$&#* no. I would rather Utah draft Jimmer than trade for Iggy.
 
Haven't we already tried this experiment before? An overpaid wing that doesn't have range outside of a dunk?

If we really want Iggy we could just resign AK for much cheaper.

Not saying I think Iguodala is exactly what we need, but to say that Iguodala is on the same level of AK lost you some credibility.
 
We obviously disagree on Al.

Can't say what the prospects are for stashing a Big overseas, but I would think that would be KOC's preference. Doesn't mean he wouldn't just bring a Biyombo or Kanter on board and let competition sort it all out. But since we have to pay Memo, I would think he'd like to rehab his value as a trade asset which means less time for the 5th big whoever it is.
You actually raise a point that makes strengthens my feeling on ditching Al and still remaining at least competitive enough; Memo. The only way the guy is getting minutes is if someone goes, otherwise he will (or should) rot on the bench. Between Favors, Millsap (who can play the 3, but is not and should not be a full-time 3), Memo, and Biyombo/Kanter (if it happens), you have enough bodies to be okay. With Al, it turns into a legitimate logjam if Memo is to play AND if the Jazz draft a big. Favors isn't going anywhere, Millsap is efficient and on a cheap deal and can play some 3, Memo is going to demand time but probably shouldn't.

I don't know, everyone should take my opinion on Al with a grain of salt because I never liked the acquisition and try as I did to get into it he just fortified my initial opinion.
 
You actually raise a point that makes strengthens my feeling on ditching Al and still remaining at least competitive enough; Memo. The only way the guy is getting minutes is if someone goes, otherwise he will (or should) rot on the bench. Between Favors, Millsap (who can play the 3, but is not and should not be a full-time 3), Memo, and Biyombo/Kanter (if it happens), you have enough bodies to be okay. With Al, it turns into a legitimate logjam if Memo is to play AND if the Jazz draft a big. Favors isn't going anywhere, Millsap is efficient and on a cheap deal and can play some 3, Memo is going to demand time but probably shouldn't.

I don't know, everyone should take my opinion on Al with a grain of salt....

naw, man, there is no grain of salt for me. I've been saying ^these^ words for awhile (although I wasn't as initially down on Jefferson as you).
 
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