Sixers ready to part ways with Igoudala.

[NAOS]

Jefferson & Miles

for

Hibbert, Rush & Posey's expiring contract to make it work.

We keep our 6th pick

Harris
Rush
Hayward
Favors
Hibbert

Than have 2 draft picks still to fill the bench. Biyombo and a wing player coming off the bench.

that's not a bad trade, and I don't think it's totally outside the realm of being realistically considered. FWIW, I've been browsing a Pacer forum for awhile now, and there is near unanimous interest in the idea of moving Hibbert for a more prolific scorer; they seem to have gotten this idea from national sports junkies. I think this distributes our resources and talents nicely, and I like the idea of having two sizable expirings to pick up draft picks in next year's stacked draft.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

I don't have a link. It's been too long, but he refused because it was Utah. Not draft position. He had some quote about it. Weirdly so did Channing Frye...

I haven't found anything. Only thing I found was from here: https://www.nba.com/bobcats/news/draft_central_duo_060204.html

"([Iguodala] on where he thinks he’ll go in the draft)
With the way things are going right now, hopefully I’ll be in the top 10. Today’s workout was excellent and I played well in Chicago and then I’ll go to the next teams all the way down to 10. So, anywhere from three to 10, hopefully. "

 

[Justys]

that's not a bad trade, and I don't think it's totally outside the realm of being realistically considered. FWIW, I've been browsing a Pacer forum for awhile now, and there is near unanimous interest in the idea of moving Hibbert for a more prolific scorer; they seem to have gotten this idea from national sports junkies. I think this distributes our resources and talents nicely, and I like the idea of having two sizable expirings to pick up draft picks in next year's stacked draft.

Hibbert<Jefferson I don't even know if I'd trade Jefferson for Hibbert, Posey, & Rush. It would be nice to see the Jazz pick up a true 7 ft center but Hibbert is so wishy washy...1 game he goes for 20 and 10 with 2 blocks, the next 6 points with 8 rebs. I'd much rather see Millsap moved then Jefferson. I just don't know if I see Hibbert in the future much of an upgrade over Jefferson. The way jefferson finished out the season was amazing.

All Utah needs is Harris to stay Healthy, Hayward to play some Point Forward, Favors to stay out of foul trouble, Jefferson to keep his play the same, as he played at end of last season, Millsap and Miles coming off the bench and 2 amazing draft picks. And Utahs a contender P.s. I tried not to bring up how important AK or Fez our to the Jazz

 

[NAOS]

Hibbert<Jefferson I don't even know if I'd trade Jefferson for Hibbert, Posey, & Rush. It would be nice to see the Jazz pick up a true 7 ft center but Hibbert is so wishy washy...1 game he goes for 20 and 10 with 2 blocks, the next 6 points with 8 rebs. I'd much rather see Millsap moved then Jefferson. I just don't know if I see Hibbert in the future much of an upgrade over Jefferson. The way jefferson finished out the season was amazing.

All Utah needs is Harris to stay Healthy, Hayward to play some Point Forward, Favors to stay out of foul trouble, Jefferson to keep his play the same, as he played at end of last season, Millsap and Miles coming off the bench and 2 amazing draft picks. And Utahs a contender P.s. I tried not to bring up how important AK or Fez our to the Jazz

we disagree about Jefferson's mode of play. The dude is a ballhog. Acquiring Hibbert is not only a money saver, but he'd play second-fiddle to Favors down low instead of Favors and Millsap picking up (or trying to pick up) Al's scraps.

To Al's credit, he did so some signs of improved passing in the last 15 games, but he has a LONG way to go.

 

[billyshelby]

Jefferson & Miles

for

Hibbert, Rush & Posey's expiring contract to make it work.

We keep our 6th pick

Harris
Rush
Hayward
Favors
Hibbert

Than have 2 draft picks still to fill the bench. Biyombo and a wing player coming off the bench.

I'd do this deal just to see the reaction around here when these guys actually took the floor. Hibbert is the tall center everyone wants. Of course he's not even an average athlete and it would be a crackup listening to everyone moan about him shooting a hook because he can't get any other shot for himself. But Rush would be priceless. He's literally as pathetic offensively as Bell. So we'd have Bell starting, and Bell coming off the bench. Rush makes Wes look like Dwayne Wade.

 

[Justys]

I think Hibbert can be amazing and if it's about rebuilding I could see the good from it. If Utah trades Jefferson for Hibbert, I'd really like to see the next move be Millsap and a pick for Josh Smith to man up the 3 with Favors and Hibbert!

 

[Justys]

I'd do this deal just to see the reaction around here when these guys actually took the floor. Hibbert is the tall center everyone wants. Of course he's not even an average athlete and it would be a crackup listening to everyone moan about him shooting a hook because he can't get any other shot for himself. But Rush would be priceless. He's literally as pathetic offensively as Bell. So we'd have Bell starting, and Bell coming off the bench. Rush makes Wes look like Dwayne Wade.

ANd doesn't Hibbert have Head Issues?

 

[NUMBERICA]

I'd do this deal just to see the reaction around here when these guys actually took the floor. Hibbert is the tall center everyone wants. Of course he's not even an average athlete and it would be a crackup listening to everyone moan about him shooting a hook because he can't get any other shot for himself. But Rush would be priceless. He's literally as pathetic offensively as Bell. So we'd have Bell starting, and Bell coming off the bench. Rush makes Wes look like Dwayne Wade.

Only a homer or someone that can't see past dumb stats would make the case that Miles and Jefferson play a more winning brand of basketball than Hibbert and Rush. And that's not even necessarily a compliment to Hibbert and Rush.

ANd doesn't Hibbert have Head Issues?

Huh?

P.S. You have a search engine too.

 

[billyshelby]

Well, you'd have to be blind to think that Hibbert was better than Al or Rush was better than Miles.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Well, you'd have to be blind to think that Hibbert was better than Al or Rush was better than Miles.

Better at what, attempting field goals with blinders on, whether they're hot or cold? You're right, Jefferson and Miles are elite at that.

 

[billyshelby]

Better at what, attempting field goals with blinders on, whether they're hot or cold? You're right, Jefferson and Miles are elite at that.

Neither Hibbert or Rush are even remotely as talented as Al or Miles. What makes them 'special' in the eyes of Jazz fans is they have skills or attributes that some of our players lack. Hibbert is really big. A statue with no low post game, but big. Rush makes 3's. He can't do anything else to help a team offensively, but he makes 3's.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Neither Hibbert or Rush are even remotely as talented as Al or Miles. What makes them 'special' in the eyes of Jazz fans is they have skills or attributes that some of our players lack. Hibbert is really big. A statue with no low post game, but big. Rush makes 3's. He can't do anything else to help a team offensively, but he makes 3's.

How you've missed my point, I don't know. JEFFERSON AND MILES ARE CHUCKERS AND DON'T PLAY SMART BALL, NOT EVEN REMOTELY.

Signed,
-A former Miles supporter/homer/apologist

EDIT: To clarify a little; I understand that smart, team-oriented basketball won't win you everything. However, chucker crap, soft-players, and/or pouters can ruin anything you have going for you. The talent will come, we don't have to play with the chips that the Jazz had a year ago anymore. The team should be starting from the ground up as far as the roster goes, and I feel since the Jazz will have draft picks (talent), make sure everyone else knows how to make a pass when they should and rotate when they should. Rush and Hibbert themselves aren't untalented, they're nice players, but they don't levy a guaranteed tax on possessions when they're on the floor.

P.(P.)S. If I thought the Jazz had the chance to trade Al and the 12 for Tim Duncan's corpse, I'd do it if only to try to impart some of the wisdom and the culture he might instill and because 12 is a crapshoot and I just don't see Al in the longterm plans here. But that's a tangent.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

How you've missed my point, I don't know. JEFFERSON AND MILES ARE CHUCKERS AND DON'T PLAY SMART BALL, NOT EVEN REMOTELY.

Signed,
-A former Miles supporter/homer/apologist

EDIT: To clarify a little; I understand that smart, team-oriented basketball won't win you everything. However, chucker crap, soft-players, and/or pouters can ruin anything you have going for you. The talent will come, we don't have to play with the chips that the Jazz had a year ago anymore. The team should be starting from the ground up as far as the roster goes, and I feel since the Jazz will have draft picks (talent), make sure everyone else knows how to make a pass when they should and rotate when they should. Rush and Hibbert themselves aren't untalented, they're nice players, but they don't levy a guaranteed tax on possessions when they're on the floor.

P.(P.)S. If I thought the Jazz had the chance to trade Al and the 12 for Tim Duncan's corpse, I'd do it if only to try to impart some of the wisdom and the culture he might instill and because 12 is a crapshoot and I just don't see Al in the longterm plans here. But that's a tangent.

And you think the answer to that is a guy who shot 2 fewer shots per 36 minutes at a much worse shooting percentage? You're of the rotating door philosophy when it comes to players, right?

 

[Darkwing Duck]

And don't even get started on the "chucker" nonsense. When Miles was playing the same role as Rush played this year, he was a slightly better version of Brandon Rush. You ask Rush to play the same role C.J. played this past year and you're going to get the same, or worse, player.

 

[billyshelby]

How you've missed my point, I don't know. JEFFERSON AND MILES ARE CHUCKERS AND DON'T PLAY SMART BALL, NOT EVEN REMOTELY.

Signed,
-A former Miles supporter/homer/apologist

EDIT: To clarify a little; I understand that smart, team-oriented basketball won't win you everything. However, chucker crap, soft-players, and/or pouters can ruin anything you have going for you. The talent will come, we don't have to play with the chips that the Jazz had a year ago anymore. The team should be starting from the ground up as far as the roster goes, and I feel since the Jazz will have draft picks (talent), make sure everyone else knows how to make a pass when they should and rotate when they should. Rush and Hibbert themselves aren't untalented, they're nice players, but they don't levy a guaranteed tax on possessions when they're on the floor.

P.(P.)S. If I thought the Jazz had the chance to trade Al and the 12 for Tim Duncan's corpse, I'd do it if only to try to impart some of the wisdom and the culture he might instill and because 12 is a crapshoot and I just don't see Al in the longterm plans here. But that's a tangent.

I'd much rather have perceived chuckers who have actual talent and reign them in than guys who don't have a lot of talent and turn them into scorers.

 

[NAOS]

Billy, I learn as much from you as any other poster on this site, but I think you are undervaluing Hibbert. That's a 24yr old improving Center that stands 7'2" who can be productive without being the blackhole of the offensive scheme. Oh yeah, he's also a lot cheaper than Al.

He's not athletic, but neither is Al.

I wouldn't do the trade as suggested, i.e. Al + CJ for Hibbert + Rush + Posey. But, if I could get Indy's first next year plus a future 2nd then I'd think really hard about it.

Next year, if we had GS's first, Indy's first, our first, and could then turn Memo's and Posey's expiring into late firsts, then we could combine picks to move up in what will be one of the best drafts ever. It's possible that this proposed trade could net us another starter (or star?).

 

[billyshelby]

I don't think Hibbert's a bad player. I think he'll be a solid center. I just don't think he has a high ceiling. He's great if you can pair him with a 4 who can shoulder the scoring load in the paint. I haven't seen him enough to really have an opinion on his defense, but I know he isn't very athletic. And I don't see him ever turning into a guy you feed in the post. I wouldn't be upset to get him, but I would be if we traded Al for him. Al is much more skilled than he is.

 

[Justys]

I'd have to think long and hard about Millsap plus the 6th pick for Hibbert plus Jones & maybe there pick. Indy might do it, justfor Millsap? Then they can use there pick on a euro big, Maybe Kanter falls to them at 6? Utah would get the true big man, they have needed for years. To play along side (heres the best part) Jefferson/Favors. Now thats an amazing big man rotation! Plus Jones would be a decent cheap piece off the bench. And if we got there pick it, maybe we could package the 12 with there pick and try and move up get Knight?

 

[NAOS]

I'd have to think long and hard about Millsap plus the 6th pick for Hibbert plus Jones & maybe there pick. Indy might do it, justfor Millsap? Then they can use there pick on a euro big, Maybe Kanter falls to them at 6? Utah would get the true big man, they have needed for years. To play along side (heres the best part) Jefferson/Favors. Now thats an amazing big man rotation! Plus Jones would be a decent cheap piece off the bench. And if we got there pick it, maybe we could package the 12 with there pick and try and move up get Knight?

naw, #6, even in this draft, has all-star potential.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I don't think Hibbert's a bad player. I think he'll be a solid center. I just don't think he has a high ceiling. He's great if you can pair him with a 4 who can shoulder the scoring load in the paint. I haven't seen him enough to really have an opinion on his defense, but I know he isn't very athletic. And I don't see him ever turning into a guy you feed in the post. I wouldn't be upset to get him, but I would be if we traded Al for him. Al is much more skilled than he is.

We'll just have to disagree on some of these points. I don't know that you can "reign in" veterans that have never learned to play team ball and have had time to figure it out.

Hibbert can put up shots, and he certainly doesn't score as well as Jefferson, but he's a good passer and he doesn't demand possessions. I don't at all believe that a steady diet of low-post plays is the key to a championship anymore, but I do believe you need at least one big that can handle himself down low to exploit a matchup but mostly can have an offense run through him (not AS him). I'm not advocating dumping Al to get Hibbert because I think Hibbert will score more points, I advocate it because I just don't see Al in the team's future and Hibbert is a smarter, bigger, more versatile player. Pairing him with Favors makes a lot more sense to me since Hibbert made his name playing out of the high-post in a Princeton offense and I think it would give Favors better scoring opportunities. Besides all of that, Hibbert is on a rookie deal and it's more believable he can grow as a player still (since he's still relatively A LOT less experienced).

As far as Miles goes, he's almost always played like he was supposed to be the guy. Since the '07-'08 season where he was efficient in spot minutes (and got a contract because of it), his percentages from the field have gone down every single year while his field goals attempted (both absolute and rate) have gone up every single year. That's not a trend going in the right direction, and bad habits are harder to correct the further you get. My point is it's irrelevant if the Jazz are asking him to chuck or not, that's just how he plays. I see no chance that changes, though there is a small chance he actually starts making shots. I'm not and wouldn't be asking Brandon Rush to take >18 shots per 40 minutes, I'm asking him to take shots where he's open (enough), where the ball has gone through a few people's hands in a set, and be mindful of if his shots are going in or not. Miles tries to shoot his way out of a slump, and once every 5 games, he is insanely productive and efficient enough to look like a halfway competent player.

I'm not asking these guys to put up a combined 35 shots. That's precisely my point. I want smart players. I'm confident we can find our offensive beasts of burden through the draft (and I think we may have already found one or two of them).