Greg Miller re Tanking: "It's Immoral"

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Exactly my point.

All of these activities are what stupid idiot window-lickers complain about and are no less moral than tanking the **** out of this season in order to secure a better future for the Jazz.

Disagree. You got a lot of fans who just want a good solid product they can be proud and enjoy watching. At the end of the day basketball is just a form of escapist entertainment. People want to be able to enjoy it and most will not be able to do so if the team is truly tanking.

Tanking goes against what they want and it goes against making the NBA a quality product overall. So you are doing a disservice to your casual fans (who make up the majority of their fanbase) and NBA as a whole. I know I didnt enjoy watching the Jazz play the Sixers while they were a dumpster team.

 

[gomretat]

I agree with Greg and it is a perfectly acceptable use of the term.

 

[Magic Spray]

Disagree. You got a lot of fans who just want a good solid product they can be proud and enjoy watching. At the end of the day basketball is just a form of escapist entertainment. People want to be able to enjoy it and most will not be able to do so if the team is truly tanking.

Tanking goes against what they want and it goes against making the NBA a quality product overall. So you are doing a disservice to your casual fans (who make up the majority of their fanbase) and NBA as a whole. I know I didnt enjoy watching the Jazz play the Sixers while they were a dumpster team.

No doubt, Sixers took the logic all the way to its terminus. And it sucked.

Although Ben Simmons is a fabulous booby-prize turns out.

I think you're looking at it the wrong way. Think of it as a business filing for bankruptcy in order to re-structure.

The Jazz done got ****ed by the market. Left holding the bag. Injuries. The Western Conference turning into Thunderdome. Why not do a Spurs tank, put Gobert on ice, and dive to the bottom, shouldn't be hard playing most games against the West.

Then get Doncic in the draft. bring in a healthy Gobert, Dante, and Doncic to compliment Mitchell (who gets a ton of minutes in the tank). This lets Hood fulfill his destiny as CJ Miles. This perhaps lets Favors be traded at the deadline for a good draft pick.

And the Jazz are right back in the mix next season. Honestly, I have a testimony of this great plan of happiness.

[video=youtube_share;enOx5YZ-Uco]https://youtu.be/enOx5YZ-Uco

 

[The Midnight]

Disagree. You got a lot of fans who just want a good solid product they can be proud and enjoy watching. At the end of the day basketball is just a form of escapist entertainment. People want to be able to enjoy it and most will not be able to do so if the team is truly tanking.

Tanking goes against what they want and it goes against making the NBA a quality product overall. So you are doing a disservice to your casual fans (who make up the majority of their fanbase) and NBA as a whole. I know I didnt enjoy watching the Jazz play the Sixers while they were a dumpster team.

But Golden State clearly (and admittedly) tanked that year to get our pick and grabbed Harrison Barnes.


They have now won 2 Championships - I doubt their fans are complaining about the 'disservice' the FO did to them now.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMfn6-mb8_4

 

[Jack Strop]

In response to Greg Miller's statement, I take the Bill Clinton approach: it depends on what your definition of tanking is.

Did the Jazz "tank" to get the #5 pick in 2014? Did they "tank" to get the #12 pick in 2015?

A. If you define "tanking" as intentionally losing games, then no, Utah has never tanked. The team has always tried to win games.

B. If you define "tanking" as not signing decent backups. Of under-staffing to improve your chances at getting a higher lottery pick, then yes, Utah has "tanked" every season from 2013-14 to 2015-16. Jazz had the 28th lowest payroll in most of those seasons. They traded (or let walk) guys like Millsap, Carroll, Foye, etc. And instead of signing quality FA's to replace them, they brought in Tinsley, JLIII, Garrett, etc. traded for notable studs like Beidrins, Rush, Mack, etc. and scoured the DLeague for scrubs - all while having nearly the lowest payroll in the league. The goal of the "GM Tank" was to (hopefully) have 4-5 young players develop into a decent core, be competitive, but have the rest of the team be so bad, that games would be lost and higher draft picks would bring in future franchise or rotational players.

So Mr. Miller...under definition #2 you and Dennis have been incredibly IMMORAL, not even trying to make the playoffs for several seasons while expecting fans to pay the same prices for tickets, concessions and merchandise while you lined your pockets with the money saved by not giving the Jazz a roster at even a league average rate.

I wish the Jazz would be sold to an ownership group willing to go out and spend what it takes to provide a quality product. Mark my words, DL will talk big about having cap flexibility for free agents. But as he's done EVERY single year (minus his pitiful attempt to appease and keep Hayward), he'll then mumble about free agents costing too much. Hood and Exum will end up elsewhere and he'll go value shopping at the .99 cent store for the Jerebko's of the league.

 

[NUMBERICA]

The Jazz tanked in 2014 and all they got out of it was Exum.

Something to think about.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

But Golden State clearly (and admittedly) tanked that year to get our pick and grabbed Harrison Barnes.


They have now won 2 Championships - I doubt their fans are complaining about the 'disservice' the FO did to them now.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMfn6-mb8_4

Sure, but those championships have little to do with drafting Harrison Barnes. They never fully tanked a season, or multiple seasons.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

In response to Greg Miller's statement, I take the Bill Clinton approach: it depends on what your definition of tanking is.

Did the Jazz "tank" to get the #5 pick in 2014? Did they "tank" to get the #12 pick in 2015?

A. If you define "tanking" as intentionally losing games, then no, Utah has never tanked. The team has always tried to win games.

B. If you define "tanking" as not signing decent backups. Of under-staffing to improve your chances at getting a higher lottery pick, then yes, Utah has "tanked" every season from 2013-14 to 2015-16. Jazz had the 28th lowest payroll in most of those seasons. They traded (or let walk) guys like Millsap, Carroll, Foye, etc. And instead of signing quality FA's to replace them, they brought in Tinsley, JLIII, Garrett, etc. traded for notable studs like Beidrins, Rush, Mack, etc. and scoured the DLeague for scrubs - all while having nearly the lowest payroll in the league. The goal of the "GM Tank" was to (hopefully) have 4-5 young players develop into a decent core, be competitive, but have the rest of the team be so bad, that games would be lost and higher draft picks would bring in future franchise or rotational players.

So Mr. Miller...under definition #2 you and Dennis have been incredibly IMMORAL, not even trying to make the playoffs for several seasons while expecting fans to pay the same prices for tickets, concessions and merchandise while you lined your pockets with the money saved by not giving the Jazz a roster at even a league average rate.

I wish the Jazz would be sold to an ownership group willing to go out and spend what it takes to provide a quality product. Mark my words, DL will talk big about having cap flexibility for free agents. But as he's done EVERY single year (minus his pitiful attempt to appease and keep Hayward), he'll then mumble about free agents costing too much. Hood and Exum will end up elsewhere and he'll go value shopping at the .99 cent store for the Jerebko's of the league.

Tanking is not having anyone on your team that isnt a rookie or vet minimum contract.

 

[The Midnight]

Sure, but those championships have little to do with drafting Harrison Barnes. They never fully tanked a season, or multiple seasons.

Barnes helped them to get to where they are now. He was part of their 1st Chip before Durant joined. He's a cheap NBA ready talent they didn't have to pay a tonne for.


Also Klay got a tonne of minutes that year and was often their best offensive option that year, that experience catapulted him to where he is today.

 

[enchilada_style]

I only care about what Gail says.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Barnes helped them to get to where they are now. He was part of their 1st Chip before Durant joined. He's a cheap NBA ready talent they didn't have to pay a tonne for.


Also Klay got a tonne of minutes that year and was often their best offensive option that year, that experience catapulted him to where he is today.

It's not often I'll go on record and back something you say, but you're right. Barnes' positional versatility was critical in creating the first lineup of death. Furthermore, sitting Curry for the season may not have technically been necessary, but you better believe all that time to heal was critical in his recovery.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Barnes helped them to get to where they are now. He was part of their 1st Chip before Durant joined. He's a cheap NBA ready talent they didn't have to pay a tonne for.


Also Klay got a tonne of minutes that year and was often their best offensive option that year, that experience catapulted him to where he is today.

Sure, but it's not like they started the season out saying they would tank. Curry had a bad ankle injury, then came back in March and re-injured it a game after returning and had to get ankle surgery.

Yes, they went into super tank mode in the home stretch of that year, but they never fully threw away a season.

And Klay played 24 mpg that year. He hardly got a ton of minutes.