Central tank command : the official thread

[sahlensguy]

Anointing Mitchell because of Haywad feels? Dude, you need to calm down and accept Mitchell's greatness.

I LOVE Ingles but it's asinine to say he's better than Donovan. The Don is the primary reason we are coming back. He makes everyone around him better because they see his brilliance and play up to it. He has consistently provided the big plays on both offense and defense that have sparked us.

Yeah I think there is some bias going around about Mitchell not being our 2nd or even best player. If someone watched him for the first time and didn't know he was a rookie, he wouldn't be ranked far down the list, if at all. Besides his obvious physical ability, what jumps off the screen is also how he is the leader of the team. Sure he has had a few awful shooting nights, but so did Hayward, and he was our best player at that time.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

No he isnt. His stats are better all around not to mention his defense is night and day better. Comparing them at the same age their rookie year and especially this far into the season it isnt anywhere close.

Statistically tho, he is right in line with Trey Burke through his first full NBA rookie month. Frank said the eye test he was way ahead, but the stats have them as being the close to each other. Trey shot 41% from the field and 37% from 3, averaging 15-6-3 with 2 FTA per game in the month of December (he only played 6 games in November bec he broke his finger iirc).

Nothing Frank said was factually wrong.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Statistically tho, he is right in line with Trey Burke through his first full NBA rookie month. Frank said the eye test he was way ahead, but the stats have them as being the close to each other. Trey shot 41% from the field and 37% from 3, averaging 15-6-3 with 2 FTA per game in the month of December (he only played 6 games in November bec he broke his finger iirc).

Nothing Frank said was factually wrong.

Even if you compare their rookie years and assume Mitchell will produce at the same level and disregard where Trey was at this point in his rookie year they are not the same. Mitchell stats are already better than what Burke put up his rookie year. He is shooting better percentages on more shots and scoring more points. His defense stats are also much better.

At the exact same point in their careers Trey was shooting 36% from the field and scoring 11 ppg and 3 assists per game. Mitchell is at 39% from the field and scoring 15.3 ppg and dishing 3 assists per game. Mitchell's stats are better in almost every way. It might not be huge jumps but still better all around.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I would rank the Jazz players this season as:
1. Gobert
2a. Ingles
2b. Favors
2c. Hood
2d. Mitchell
2e. Rubio

Feel like you have to be stupid not to recognize Gobert as the best player. As for the others, everyone has played as the 2nd best player for games. There are some games Mitchell takes over and looks great. There are some games Hood or Favors do that. There even have been games where Rubio has done that. Ingles seems the most consistent to me in his role always making a positive impact. Hood has been the most consistent scorer. Mitchell has the widest variance of performance. Rubio has had great performances, but has started to understand doing less is more and is becoming more consistent.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Even if you compare their rookie years and assume Mitchell will produce at the same level and disregard where Trey was at this point in his rookie year they are not the same. Mitchell stats are already better than what Burke put up his rookie year. He is shooting better percentages on more shots and scoring more points. His defense stats are also much better.

At the exact same point in their careers Trey was shooting 36% from the field and scoring 11 ppg and 3 assists per game. Mitchell is at 39% from the field and scoring 15.3 ppg and dishing 3 assists per game. Mitchell's stats are better in almost every way. It might not be huge jumps but still better all around.

They have been practically the same efficiency wise through their first 22 games (That's Mitchell current total and what Burke played in November+ December of his rookie year). Mitchell just took more shots and Burke averaged more assist.

And again, no one is saying Burke > Mitchell or even Burke = Mitchell. And Frank clearly said the eye test heavily favored Mitchell. Stop trying to argue Frank's post when there is nothing to argue about within it.

 

[Stoked]

I would rank the Jazz players this season as:
1. Gobert
2a. Ingles
2b. Favors
2c. Hood
2d. Mitchell
2e. Rubio

Feel like you have to be stupid not to recognize Gobert as the best player. As for the others, everyone has played as the 2nd best player for games. There are some games Mitchell takes over and looks great. There are some games Hood or Favors do that. There even have been games where Rubio has done that. Ingles seems the most consistent to me in his role always making a positive impact. Hood has been the most consistent scorer. Mitchell has the widest variance of performance. Rubio has had great performances, but has started to understand doing less is more and is becoming more consistent.

I wouldn't have included Rubio but this is pretty fair.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Yeah I think there is some bias going around about Mitchell not being our 2nd or even best player. If someone watched him for the first time and didn't know he was a rookie, he wouldn't be ranked far down the list, if at all. Besides his obvious physical ability, what jumps off the screen is also how he is the leader of the team. Sure he has had a few awful shooting nights, but so did Hayward, and he was our best player at that time.

What if they watched the Bulls game where he scored 4 points on 1/10 shooting? I'm sorry, Mitchell had just had too many performances like that to call him the best or 2nd best player. That's not people saying he isnt going to be great. It's just people not getting ahead of themselves unnecessarily.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I wouldn't have included Rubio but this is pretty fair.

Rubio has had great games and was amazing to start the year and now he is starting to play well again. I probably shouldn't have made him 2e, but just given him his separate ranking because of his number of bad performances, but w/e.

 

[sahlensguy]

What if they watched the Bulls game where he scored 4 points on 1/10 shooting? I'm sorry, Mitchell had just had too many performances like that to call him the best or 2nd best player. That's not people saying he isnt going to be great. It's just people not getting ahead of themselves unnecessarily.

How about looking at the month of November? (I realize that it' a small sample size, but if we are to rank mitchell, there is only a small sample size.) I'm sure here are nuances to the game in which Ingles excels at that the average fan and myself included, don't pick up on where he excels over Donovan, but I still think Donovan jumps off the screen to an unbiased average fan as the best player on the team. And with the trend where Rudy was going, that includes he as well.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

How about looking at the month of November? (I realize that it' a small sample size, but if we are to rank mitchell, there is only a small sample size.) I'm sure here are nuances to the game in which Ingles excels at that the average fan and myself included, don't pick up on where he excels over Donovan, but I still think Donovan jumps off the screen to an unbiased average fan as the best player on the team. And with the trend where Rudy was going, that includes he as well.

Are we ranking best players by how exciting they are to watch or their future potential, or their current impact on winning games? Just feel like the vets on the team still just impact the game more consistently and that Donovan's variance has had too many bad performances to rank him as the 2nd best.

 

[sahlensguy]

Are we ranking best players by how exciting they are to watch or their future potential, or their current impact on winning games? Just feel like the vets on the team still just impact the game more consistently and that Donovan's variance has had too many bad performances to rank him as the 2nd best.

For this discussion, I would say current impact. Donovan had an amazing November (some soft defenses in there). Who knows how consistent he'll be in the future. He's playing very loose right know.

And over the last month I don't know who, if anyone was observing the team for the first time and deciding, would be ranked ahead of him.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

For this discussion, I would say current impact. Donovan had an amazing November (some soft defenses in there). Who knows how consistent he'll be in the future. He's playing very loose right know.

And over the last month I don't know who, if anyone was observing the team for the first time and deciding, would be ranked ahead of him.

Sure, Donovan had great games, but he also had games where he went 3/21 in a close game the Jazz lost. That's why I ranked a bunch of guys as basically tied for the 2nd best, because I don't think the Jazz have a true/clear 2nd best player. It's a bunch of guys who step up at different times. I just gave the nod to guys I think are more consistent being ranked slightly higher.

Maybe Donovan clearly nabs that in the near future, but I don't see any reason to prematurely say that.