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#39- Jazz @ Denver 5 January 2018- Our Most Desperate Hour

Couple thoughts.

The team is a disaster.

I like and believe in Quin but don’t understand a few of his decisions right now.

Joe Johnson and Favors are likely not returning. Even with Hoods struggles he still has some value. The Jazz do have a few assets, and I will be very disappointed.

You need someone who can shoot. I am tired of watching Mitchell have amazing passes that guys either don’t take or miss every time. I’d also like to see Donovan more involved the entire game. I don’t want to overload the kid, but at this point I could care less about the playoffs or this season. It’s time to make this season about Mitchell, and every move have Mitchell and Gobert as the focal point. You have 2 stars and Exum who still has some bright hopes going forward. That is better than some franchises. It’s time to unload and retool. Truth is Hayward f***** us and we are now at a 2-3 year rebuild beyond this. No more of this pivot crap. Moves need to be made looking beyond this season.

It’s no time all doom and gloom, there’s now many times Mitchell has the ball in his hands you can’t say wow at some point. Problem is....he needs the ball more.

This whole post is on point.

Rudy and Donovan are untouchable and the offense needs to run through the Mitchell more and more. It's frustrating watching him languish in the corner without a touch for several possessions in a row. (I'd be VERY interested to see a George Hill/Donovan Mitchell backcourt but of course, it's pointless to think about at this point.)

Favors/Joe Johnson/Burks/Hood should all be on the move at the deadline. All you want in return is a guy that can score or at minimum hit open shots.

Rubio... unfortunately I think we're stuck and he's just got to figure it out or run the 2nd unit... something has to give.

Ingles... love the guy but he's clearly a bench player and I'm not sure he's really living up to his contract. His #'s are above his career averages but that might just be due to more minutes. Either way, I think he's too slow.

I still love Thabo and I think Jerebko deserves more run.

Finally, give me more Royce O'Neale.
 
Trey Lyles is killing the Jazz. Thanks for trading him, Snyder.
So dumb. Lyles is a piece. Mitchell is the FRANCHISE. It would have been nice to keep him if he hadn’t already played himself out of the rotation and sulked about it AND if he wouldn’t have been the compensation needed to add a legitimate franchise player. I’ll take Donovan Mitchell over five Trey Lyles.
 
Dunno why Jonas didn't play today, he is a much better option than Joe Jesus who looks like he needs to be resurrected, move Joe to a playoff team that wants some depth on the bench. Think Favors should be traded too, also need to consider Rubio's position, do you give him until the end of the season to turn it around or make a move?

agree with it all. Just move on from Rubio i think. Do the kid a solid and move him to a good team with plenty of shooters. I'd really rather see us make moves purely for the future to gather talent.

And send a Sudanese gang over to Gordon Haywards house. His whole departure was firstly a massive middle finger at the organization and has screwed us for a few years.
 
So Lyles restricted free agency comes up in a year and a half. Do we let bygones be bygones and throw him a bone?
 
Comments like this from George Hill make me have more faith in Quin Snyder and feel this is more of a player effort issue. Having a player that played here liken Snyder to Popovich is reassuring. Boy I bet George Hill is beyond pissed he turned down the Jazz deal. This comment also makes it obvious Hill was sincere in his want to return and that he liked it here. Went chasing a contract that didn’t exist, and now we are both worse off. I thing Hill would have played better here than he has in a Kings uniform. There’s so many what if’s, and we now have an ugly reality.

“My adjustment in Utah last year was very easy,” he continued, “just because of my relationship with coach Quin. He is like coach Pop, very precise, very strategical. We had a great team, and I wish we could have stayed together. But it’s a business.”
 
Reminds me of 2013 in reverse. Starters play fairly even with the opponents, then the bench fouls things up in the 3rd quarter and the hole is too deep to dig back out of.

Ummm. That’s a tank. Hopefully it’s enough to get a top 5 pick and a decent shot at moving up for Doncic.
 
Man I wish Hood was as good as Lyles lol. Man, I knew the FO's decision (which was forced, not really their fault) to build this team around Hood's best case scenario improvement was a mistake. He had an okay game but it's really clear how limited his game is. All the people who said Hood could step into Hayward's role....

But it's not just him. Team is just really shoddily built. Nearly every bet the FO took when constructing this team is going bust. "Let's just be one of the best defensive teams." Now it seems like our great defense was really just gobert. Like we have been awful without him. I hope every Gobert hater now sees the light and shuts their mouth. Man.

We get such great looks, Mitchell is setting guys up all game... and no one can shoot. The other team is so focused on Mitchell defensively, leaving every other wing wide open, and we can't punish them. It always feels like the offense is running through the wrong guy, and that's because really, the only right guy is Mitchell. And the league has figured that out and all they have to do is stop him. And it's really hard to watch just how incompetent, like a chicken with its head cut off, we get. For huge stretches. Every game. Then the team just gets owned on defense. I kinda wish Mitchell just wouldn't pass anymore. Just take 25 shots a game at this point. Hope Exum comes back this season so we can at least see him and Mitchell together. See if you can trade a couple guys who we won't resign, won't get much but see what is out there. Get a draft pick, pick the right player. Build around Mitchell, Gobert this off season. Probably have to let Hood go unless the market for him is lower than expected. Do not want to pay that guy close to max money. Might not have a choice. Not like the Jazz have a lot of options in free agency, so i dunno. The only guy who i really want to keep is Exum... and like, he's been injured two of his four seasons and has only potential. **** things are bad lol. Still... at least we have Mitchell and Gobert. That's something. We have to do better in building a team around them though. This team feels like a zombie team. The hayward era is over and soon the favors era is over and it just feels like a lag season at this point.
 
I went back and rewatched the 3rd and 4th quarters of this game with less emotion.

The offensive just has no rhythm when another team puts pressure on. I felt like the entire 3rd and 4th quarters it looked like a team no offensive game plan whatsoever. It was either a quick shot that was bad, or a scrambling last few seconds of the shot clock shot.

There were several times just a little effort could have gotten rebounds and they just let a Nugget player get right in and get it.

As frustrating as Rubio can be, I have to say rewatching the game the dude does play hard. He and Donovan had consistent effort on defense. I never once saw Ricky give up. One things for sure this loss had nothing to do with Rubio tonight.

Offensively Donovan seemed to me like he was trying not to be overly dominant. He didn’t touch the ball much but he really wasn’t looking for it much either. It just kind of seemed to me like Donovan doesn’t want to be overly selfish, when in reality he needs to be really selfish. Basically in the 3rd and 4th quarters tonight we got to see what this team would have looked like if we never got Mitchell, and boy would life without that kid be miserable.

It was also obvious how valueable having Rudy is, both for defense and rebounds. So many times guys wouldn’t even dare drive in or post up when Rudy is there. There were several times Lyles got low and there’s no way it happens if Rudy is there for help defense. So to whoever the commenter was above, yes the void of Rudy is obvious and he is what makes our defense, he covers up mistakes and bad defense of everyone else a lot. He is still the most valuable peice the Jazz have.

Another thing, I wish Ingles could get some more open shots. I like the thought of Mitchell kicking those great passes to Ingles instead of Hood and Sefolosha. Poor Donovan deserves 5-6 more assists a game his teammates don’t get him.

I’m concerned with losing Favors as well. I like Udoh, but he isn’t very good and the Jazz sure struggle in some way s when Udohs on the floor.

I think Jerebko should have played tonight, he would have been a better matchup against this team after watching it again.

Joe Johnson, as much as I thank him for his time here and that playoff series he won for us, it’s time to part ways. He’s just eating too much time and all those played minutes are beginning to take their toll.

In all the Jazz looked bad defensively looked a mess offensively. Rubio tries hard but things seem much more under control when Mitchell is controlling the offense. Rubio dribbles too much and seems to make decisions on the fly. Donovan is much more poised and seems to have a plan with what he’s going to do before he does it. When Donovan runs things we end up with a good shot(even though Hood, Jerebko, and Sefelosha miss all the time), when hes passive and unselfish it results in quarters like the 3rd and 4th tonight.

After rewatching it, I came to much of the same conclusions as I did watching it the first time. We miss Rudy, Donovan is an absolute star, and we need to make some moves. This current roster doesn’t work. We knew our offense wasn’t great coming into this year but when you have Hood missing most his shots, Ingles not getting hardly any open shots, and a point guard who can’t shoot it packs the paint and takes offense from being hard to impossible.
 
Agreed about Ingles not getting enough good looks. I want to say maybe we should run more plays to get him a look, but they are definitely trying. Aside from Mitchell, he really is are only (consistent) wing with an offense. I say that as an indictment of how much it feels we can't rely on Hood, and how little impact he has on most games. It seems pretty easy for teams to get the jazz to take the shot they want--any player aside from Mitchell and Ingles taking the shot is at this point a successful defensive possession for the other team. This isn't how Snyder wants to run his offense but at this point it should really be 1. Get Donovan a shot 2. Get Ingles a three. That being said... not sure how to achieve that with this roster.

Also agree that Rubio isn't the problem, necessarily. Though his limited offense compacts the problem. On a team with real options on offense, he would probably be playing a lot better. He doesn't have his own shot, he's not athletic enough to get to a line a lot. His skill is creating for others, but at this point we have like two players to create for.

Alec Burks is really bad.

The problem with the jazz is... we just don't have many good players, lol. That's become clear from watching. Aside from Mitchell, and Ingles as a solid role player, nearly everyone on the roster is under performing the expectations the front office probably hoped for.
 
agree with it all. Just move on from Rubio i think. Do the kid a solid and move him to a good team with plenty of shooters. I'd really rather see us make moves purely for the future to gather talent.

And send a Sudanese gang over to Gordon Haywards house. His whole departure was firstly a massive middle finger at the organization and has screwed us for a few years.
Man I wish Hood was as good as Lyles lol. Man, I knew the FO's decision (which was forced, not really their fault) to build this team around Hood's best case scenario improvement was a mistake. He had an okay game but it's really clear how limited his game is. All the people who said Hood could step into Hayward's role....

But it's not just him. Team is just really shoddily built. Nearly every bet the FO took when constructing this team is going bust. "Let's just be one of the best defensive teams." Now it seems like our great defense was really just gobert. Like we have been awful without him. I hope every Gobert hater now sees the light and shuts their mouth. Man.
The FO never really intended to build around Hood. The timing of Hayward's departure left the Jazz reeling. There were no good FA's available. And the Jazz certainly weren't going to be in the market for Carmelo. DL's draft failures meant Utah didn't have the assets to trade for Irving. Besides, Kyrie would likely not re-up with the Jazz.

IMO, Jazz need two starters: PF and wing (send Ingles to the bench) And Utah is in a great position now. Because the Jazz have had injuries and players underperforming, a lottery pick is likely forthcoming. Even in the 10-12 range, the Jazz could get a solid starter. That means DL just needs to get the other starter via trade or free agency.

Now's the time for DL to be bold. Give up on Favors, Hood and JJ. Get whatever assets he can. Because this draft is pretty decent. If he could land a couple of late firsts, those could restock the team with young talent.
 
Well, that about wraps up playoff hopes. In truth the jazz were a long shot since July. So i guess i should be happy they held my interest so long but also reached clarity before the trade deadline.

I like Dennis, i hope his hard work and calculated risks pay off soon.
 
I am just very disappointed in moves we have and haven't made in the last few years.

Not trading Hayward was a costly error. He could have been dealt for a Simmons or Tatum. I was pushing to trade Hayward years ago.

Using our space on Rubio was a terrible choice. Beverley or a high draft pick absorbing a bad contract would have been better.

Signing experienced but limited vets instead of Jonathon Simmons was just dumb. Did we think we were the Cavs, Rockets or Warriors with thode decisions?

Wasting Exum and Lyles in their development really pisses me off. We simply didn't play them. Was it Hayward? Did he dislike them?

We have to make good decisions in the next month. We are blessed with expendable expirings and 2 year players. We should be asking to take a bad 3 year contract if it means getting a valuable long term piece with Mitchell and Gobert.

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I saw a few posts calling for more royce oneal. Is it because people believe he has potential or something?
Last night he was on the court for a good chunk of that horrible 3rd quarter. 1-4 from the field, zero assists, zero steals, zero blocks, 1 turnover, play poor defensively, and a negative 6 in his 8 minutes.
For the season he is shooting 34% from the field. He is kinda decent at a lot of things but not particularly good at anything.

Maybe his advanced stats are good? I dont really know what a lot of them mean or what is considered good or not..... True shooting percentage of 50%, TRB% (total rebound percentage?) 11.8, AST% 13.6, TOV% 13.6, OWS 0.1, DWS 0.3, WS/48 .065, OBPM -2.5, DBPM 0.2, BPM -2.4, VORP 0.0

Are those stats good? I literally have no idea. When i watch the games and Royce Oneal comes in he seems to miss most shots he takes and not really do anything very well. He doesn't usually do anything really horrible either though so i guess that could be looked at as a good thing.
 
I think people are calling for Royce because they know JoeJ is pretty much done and O'Neal has a bargain contract the next few years. We all crave finding the next big find ever since Mitchell emerged. We are grasping at straws. I like the guy and think he should get a chance, but he might not be making the most of the chances he is getting


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I think people are calling for Royce because they know JoeJ is pretty much done and O'Neal has a bargain contract the next few years. We all crave finding the next big find ever since Mitchell emerged. We are grasping at straws. I like the guy and think he should get a chance, but he might not be making the most of the chances he is getting


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Good post. And he works really hard and hustles and seems perfect for the 4 spot next to rudy physically. Good size, quickness for his size, can shoot the 3, can handle, can play defense, and hustles. I guess i have to agree with those who want more oneal. But he is competing for minutes with ingles, JJ, jerebko, thabo, and favors (once rudy comes back). I dont see him being better than any of those guys.

One really nice stat for Royce is his plus/minus for the season. He is a +83. Some other jazz players.... Rubio -135 (worst on the team), DM +5, Ingles -92, thabo +71, JJ -109, Burks +25, Neto +88 (#1 on the team)
 
You are right Fish. From what we have seen so far, he isn't going to surpass some of those other guys. After we make a trade, and we must be making a trade right, he will have more chances to prove his worth.

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