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Zach Lowe on Jazz' starting lineup

stitches said:
You can find threads around here from 2015-2016 probably suggesting we should trade for Rubio(when we were looking for a PG that became George Hill) where I predicted the exact same thing and I was harping on how bad of a fit he will be with our front court. This is what's so mind-boggling for me with this one... How can a GM... a good GM with experience, a GM that constructed the 2016-2017 roster(which I thought was masterfully constructed)... how can he think this will work? This was NOT hard to see. I refuse to accept that this one was hard to see. This was probably the most obvious roster-construction blunder I've ever seen in my 20 something year NBA fandom. This was horrific from the very idea. It was doomed from the start... and we paid a good first round pick to see the train-wreck happen before our eyes for the duration of a full season(and possibly more).
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I had not watched much Ricky pre-trade and assumed that Hayward told DL that "do these things and I'm probably coming back". I felt the trade was a success if it meant Hayward was back and assumed DL had direction/assurance from Hayward on the deal. Otherwise it was a flat out miss that DL should have seen coming.

The real lesson on Ricky is don't let a player drive what you do... especially when his pen isn't on the paper yet. Having that pick and the cap space would be substantial in helping us move on after Hayward.
 
I'd still rather keep Ricky than give him up for nothing (unless we are getting another starting level PG back, like Kemba)
 
stitches said:
You can find threads around here from 2015-2016 probably suggesting we should trade for Rubio(when we were looking for a PG that became George Hill) where I predicted the exact same thing and I was harping on how bad of a fit he will be with our front court. This is what's so mind-boggling for me with this one... How can a GM... a good GM with experience, a GM that constructed the 2016-2017 roster(which I thought was masterfully constructed)... how can he think this will work? This was NOT hard to see. I refuse to accept that this one was hard to see. This was probably the most obvious roster-construction blunder I've ever seen in my 20 something year NBA fandom. This was horrific from the very idea. It was doomed from the start... and we paid a good first round pick to see the train-wreck happen before our eyes for the duration of a full season(and possibly more).
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I really think DL panicked and was just trying to appease Hayward. It wouldn't have worked with Hayward either, but that's the only explanation I'm seeing right now. A desperation move that DL tried to spin after the fact.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
I'd still rather keep Ricky than give him up for nothing (unless we are getting another starting level PG back, like Kemba)
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I'd do Rubio for expirings and not think twice about it. Moving him without taking salary back would mean we'd have actual cap space next year. We can do better with $15M in cap space than what Ricky will give us.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I'd do Rubio for expirings and not think twice about it. Moving him without taking salary back would mean we'd have actual cap space next year. We can do better with $15M in cap space than what Ricky will give us.
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He seems to be a very positive locker-room and community presence. I think that is worth not completely giving up on him and giving him a chance w/ a roster that is better suited to him (and to the whole team).
 
Unless there is a better option, I am not giving up on Rubio this year if we get a stretch, playmaking 4 and don't have to play Favors after the trade deadline.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
He seems to be a very positive locker-room and community presence. I think that is worth not completely giving up on him and giving him a chance w/ a roster that is better suited to him (and to the whole team).
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I like him as a person and agree whole-heartidly on the first part. The issue is he has to start because if he is benched his trade value tanks... he is paid a lot so sinking his trade value is an issue. He works so poorly with Rudy (and others) that it isn't worth it for the warm fuzzies.

Neto is a good guy who has worked hard and always competes. He is on a minimum deal... all things being equal contractually I think he'd get more run and likely would have replaced Ricky in the starting lineup. he hasn't been healthy so its not as big of an issue.

If we make the decision to bring Ricky off the bench is he still the positive locker room presence?
 
Quin's Murderface said:
I really think DL panicked and was just trying to appease Hayward. It wouldn't have worked with Hayward either, but that's the only explanation I'm seeing right now. A desperation move that DL tried to spin after the fact.
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He absolutely panicked! I refuse to imagine DL or Quin are stupid enough to think he would fit. They simply panicked. My first thought was - they panicked. And they did. There was absolutely nothing that should have made them think Rubio is a good fit and we traded a good first round pick for him. This first rounder could have been a good bullet in the barrel in case a trade up scenario opens up for one of the stars in the draft even if we don't end up with a top pick.

This type of appeasement moves pretty much never work. If you have to get a second rate point guard to convince somebody to come to/stay with your franchise then he's not staying anyways. That's like when Miami drafted Shabbaz Napier because LeBron liked him in the draft only to see LeBron walk anyways. Or when PHX went to the LMA meeting with newly signed Tyson Chandler just cuz LMA reportedly liked Chandler and wanted to play PF. Those are desperation/panic moves that haunt you for years. If the player doesn't trust your program/processes and/or trusts another team's program more, one move will not make him stay or go, the whole big picture of where your franchise is and where it's going will be much bigger part of the puzzle.

Do what's your best for your franchise. If the guy cannot appreciate that, it's OK. Let him walk, he probably would have walked anyways, no matter what you did in this specific instance, only this time you wouldn't have compromised your team and its asset base.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
He seems to be a very positive locker-room and community presence. I think that is worth not completely giving up on him and giving him a chance w/ a roster that is better suited to him (and to the whole team).
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He's not some 19 year old. We know who he is and how he plays. He's not suddenly dramatically improving, all he's done this season is regress.
 
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