Following Potential 2018 Draftees

[stitches]

Anyone remember Hayward's athleticism and shooting stroke when he came into the league? Brown Jr. is ahead of that, imo, and he's still only 19.

The thing that's great about Brown is his floor vision, home-run passing, and subtle timing in making plays. He's got instincts that a lot of wings don't have.

I've been looking for guys that combine length with real ball skills. I think Brown Jr. can do it.

Yeah, I wish he were 6'9" and I wish he had a 38" max vertical, but were drafting outside the lottery here.

No he's not ahead of that. Not close! Hayward had burst and average-ish athleticism both in game and in testing. Brown Jr was:
- last out of all SFs in no step vert,
- last out of all SFs in max vert,
- last out of all SFs in 3 quarters sprint,
- second to last out of all SFs in the shuttle,
- third to last out of all SFs in lane agility.

This is horrible in all aspects. He is not explosive, not quick and not agile and has bad start-stop quickness. This is what I see on tape too. Those tests are not surprising when you watch him on tape.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I don't see his athleticism either. He just got blocked effortlessly on a drive by some random dude with no NBA future or athleticism. He's probably a bit more athletic than Kyle Anderson but not by a lot IMO.

I think it's by a fairly big margin. He is a lot smoother. Anderson is extremely slow, like a weird unique pace of slow.

Brown reminds me more of an Ingles level athlete with more natural explosiveness/strength. He moves well with the ball in his hands, changes direction well, has good footwork on spins and and jabs, etc. He seems to move well lateraly on defense too, uses his length and body much in the way Ingles does.

 

[stitches]

I think it's by a fairly big margin. He is a lot smoother. Anderson is extremely slow, like a weird unique pace of slow.

Brown reminds me more of an Ingles level athlete with more natural explosiveness/strength. He moves well with the ball in his hands, changes direction well, has good footwork on spins and and jabs, etc. He seems to move well lateraly on defense too, uses his length and body much in the way Ingles does.

I don't think there is a huge difference between Jingles and Kyle Anderson's athleticism. I don't consider Jingles a good or even an average athlete. I'm good with the Jingles-Brown comparison athletically too, so if you feel better about it lets say he's Jingles type of athlete... the problem is... Jingles defends... and Jingles hits 45% of his 3s. Brown hasn't shown that he can do either.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Jingles is like 32 years old.

Also, Troy Brown is a markedly more explosive athlete than Jingles.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Yeah, but Ingles would still be a good NBA player even if he was just an average 3pt shooter. Brown has more natural size to him too and a better scoring feel.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Jingles is like 32 years old.

Also, Troy Brown is a markedly more explosive athlete than Jingles.

Ingles turns 31 in October.

 

[stitches]

Yeah, but Ingles would still be a good NBA player even if he was just an average 3pt shooter. Brown has more natural size to him too and a better scoring feel.

Sure... but Brown hasn't shown he can hit the 3 at average clip. That's the whole point of my worry... it's that he turns into a Kyle Anderson-type who cannot hit shots and doesn't have the athleticism to provide value in other ways.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Sure... but Brown hasn't shown he can hit the 3 at average clip. That's the whole point of my worry... it's that he turns into a Kyle Anderson-type who cannot hit shots and doesn't have the athleticism to provide value in other ways.

Okay, I'll agree that's the risk factor. If he's a sad sack athlete who doesn't shoot from 3-pt range, then yeah, he's basically Andrew Harrison.

I don't think that's going to be his outcome.

 

[Keefe]

Okay, I'll agree that's the risk factor. If he's a sad sack athlete who doesn't shoot from 3-pt range, then yeah, he's basically Andrew Harrison.

I don't think that's going to be his outcome.

But that is who he is though. Why do you see his outcome being any different?

 

[Keefe]

Also, his body is so developed I don't see any room for improvement really. It's minimal anyway imo. Compared to your typical frosh who could fill out nicely and such.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Okay, I'll agree that's the risk factor. If he's a sad sack athlete who doesn't shoot from 3-pt range, then yeah, he's basically Andrew Harrison.

I don't think that's going to be his outcome.

lol wut? He isnt Andrew Harrison under any instance. He has a 6'11 wingspan (or was it 6'10) and an 8'9 standing reach w/ a thick frame. If he cant shoot he might just be Kyle Anderson, who is still a really valuable player. I think he improves his shooting though.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

But that is who he is though. Why do you see his outcome being any different?

Because he's not a sad sack athlete, and I think he will add the shooting. His versatility and skill level makes him valuable. He's only 19, and I don't think he's done developing.

His Combine athletic testing is comparable to Aminu and Chandler Parsons. They didn't do the Combine in 1998. Otherwise, I'd like to compare Troy Brown Jr. to Paul Pierce.

Once you start drafting in the 20s, guys are going to have imperfections. Huerter doesn't have the toughness and downhill game that Brown Jr. has. He may be a very limited isolation player. KBD isn't really a triple threat with the ball in his hands and he may struggle guarding faster wings. Jerome Robinson may struggle guarding on switches. Etc.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Another guy who had 26" and 33" vertical testing was Kevin Durant. Not the most apt example, but you get the idea.

 

[seattlejazzfan]

When you're 7', 33 inch vert is very nice.

Another guy who had 26" and 33" vertical testing was Kevin Durant. Not the most apt example, but you get the idea.

 

[Keefe]

Because he's not a sad sack athlete, and I think he will add the shooting. His versatility and skill level makes him valuable. He's only 19, and I don't think he's done developing.

His Combine athletic testing is comparable to Aminu and Chandler Parsons. They didn't do the Combine in 1998. Otherwise, I'd like to compare Troy Brown Jr. to Paul Pierce.

Once you start drafting in the 20s, guys are going to have imperfections. Huerter doesn't have the toughness and downhill game that Brown Jr. has. He may be a very limited isolation player. KBD isn't really a triple threat with the ball in his hands and he may struggle guarding faster wings. Jerome Robinson may struggle guarding on switches. Etc.

Did you see what stitches posted? He was bottom 3 at small forward for every athletic test. Also, I completely disagree with Huerter having less of a downhill game. Watch his highlights. He can actually go by a guy much better than Brown and finish. And toughness? These kids are 19 ad playing basketball, not football. I'm not sure how one really measures that or can say that. Your concern on KBP is legit but his athletic testing measured out well.

Brown reminds me of an older Joe Jesus. Like he drives but can't really drive by anyone anymore so he stops and pivots, etc. Except this kid isn't going to be able to play the 4. Can he?

 

[LoPo]

This is coming from the guy who went on a rant about how Hayward sucked because of how long it took him to develop and how you woudlnt want to draft a player like that at 21?

You deflected from my point. The discussion when I made my comment was around waiting 2 years for a player to emerge. And even with Hayward, my statement still rings true - "A majority of teams don't care about the length of the project as long as the project is worth it."

We took Hayward because we knew he could become a good NBA player. We took him over guys with shorter ceilings but who were more NBA ready right away.

 

[Keefe]

@Saint Cy of JFC

Why is Evans dropping?

I'd assume because he's not great at any one thing and doesn't stand out as special in some way.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Did you see what stitches posted? He was bottom 3 at small forward for every athletic test. Also, I completely disagree with Huerter having less of a downhill game. Watch his highlights. He can actually go by a guy much better than Brown and finish. And toughness? These kids are 19 ad playing basketball, not football. I'm not sure how one really measures that or can say that. Your concern on KBP is legit but his athletic testing measured out well.

Brown reminds me of an older Joe Jesus. Like he drives but can't really drive by anyone anymore so he stops and pivots, etc. Except this kid isn't going to be able to play the 4. Can he?

The really non-athletic players don't often do the athletic testing at the Combine at all. Luke Kennard skipped it last year. Several guys, including Trae Young, skipped it this year. Kevin Knox's vertical might not be that special. He's more fluid than explosive. He didn't do the athletic testing.

Troy Brown can get by guys by getting low and using dribble moves. Joe Johnson sticks his butt in your face and backs you down.

 

[LoPo]

How long have they done the athletic testing and has there been any analytical breakdown of the prospects over time for any indicators?

 

[mellow]

How long have they done the athletic testing and has there been any analytical breakdown of the prospects over time for any indicators?

That is a very interesting question. The data wouldn't be perfect because of the guys who didn't test, but there should be enough of a sample size of guys who did test. I wish the guys on 1280 would ask Dennis Lindsey on Friday.