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Keillor and MeToo

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I read the article from the Post. There is one thing that troubled me. Only one woman is identified and several other women are mentioned but not identified. And they did interviews with 60 other persons and Keillor worked there 50 years! Sounds like he was getting it a lot, eh? But the one woman sounds legit. Hey, we all are human. If we didn't have such urges, the human race would not have survived. And they fired Keillor without even giving him a chance to tell his side of the story. That is guilty without a trial; that is fascist, and a violation of our basic right to trial by jury, something going back to English Common Law, more than a 1,000 years. A person is supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. One person's word is not proof.
 
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Bawse Dawg said:
Uh, no. Is the guy on trial? That is not how the court of public opinion works. So people can stop bringing up that weak *** defense.


You also come off as an incredibly unsympathetic ******* in this and the Jazz Bear thread. If you cared to know.
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What is that supposed to mean, that the court of public opinion is not based on facts, but emotion, and we're supposed to accept that? Unsympathetic? No, not at all. I've been sexually "harassed" by both men and women. Nothing overt, but nothing to sue someone over or convict them for their natural feelings. And the women were mostly just trying to get something from me, not that they had a desire to be with me. In some cases, there certainly has been a quid pro quo. On the other hand, we all know that human biology has caused men to be more pro-active in seeking sex. Things are changing. But are we to convict all men for their sexuality? Not all men sexually harass women. I know that for a fact because I am one of them.
 
Eenie-Meenie said:
I read the article from the Post. There is one thing that troubled me. Only one woman is identified and several other women are mentioned but not identified. And they did interviews with 60 other persons and Keillor worked there 50 years! Sounds like he was getting it a lot, eh? But the one woman sounds legit. Hey, we all are human. If we didn't have such urges, the human race would not have survived. And they fired Keillor without even giving him a chance to tell his side of the story. That is guilty without a trial; that is fascist, and a violation of our basic right to trial by jury, something going back to English Common Law, more than a 1,000 years. A person is supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. One person's word is not proof.
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First, stop saying it was only her word against him. There was other evidence (hand written notes, emails, texts, coworkers who were aware, other women who also had issues, etc.). He also refused to give evidence that would have countered the evidence against him (emails, texts, computer).

Second, they did give him the right to tell his side of the story, and then decided he was lying. Furthermore, his story has changed over time. Originally, it was that he only touched her back while trying to console her. Now he says that it happened, but it was okay because he was not in a position of power at the show and there was mutual interest. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...t-as-romantic-writing/?utm_term=.80c278c7e087

Interesting piece of info from the article, the woman told Keillor and others at the show that the advances were unwelcome all the way back in 2011. By 2015 she had made 4 other reports. Does this sound like the man was punished without proof?
 
Eenie-Meenie said:
What is that supposed to mean, that the court of public opinion is not based on facts, but emotion, and we're supposed to accept that? Unsympathetic? No, not at all. I've been sexually "harassed" by both men and women. Nothing overt, but nothing to sue someone over or convict them for their natural feelings. And the women were mostly just trying to get something from me, not that they had a desire to be with me. In some cases, there certainly has been a quid pro quo. On the other hand, we all know that human biology has caused men to be more pro-active in seeking sex. Things are changing. But are we to convict all men for their sexuality? Not all men sexually harass women. I know that for a fact because I am one of them.
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You have what you believe to be a creeper in your neighborhood. He's not on the sex offender registry, but there's just something off about him that brings you to tears just knowing he owns a house on your street. Do you really feel safe letting your daughter watch his children? Water his plants while he claims to be 'on holiday'?

There's a place for the court of public opinion.
 
Eenie-Meenie said:
What is that supposed to mean, that the court of public opinion is not based on facts, but emotion, and we're supposed to accept that? Unsympathetic? No, not at all. I've been sexually "harassed" by both men and women. Nothing overt, but nothing to sue someone over or convict them for their natural feelings. And the women were mostly just trying to get something from me, not that they had a desire to be with me. In some cases, there certainly has been a quid pro quo. On the other hand, we all know that human biology has caused men to be more pro-active in seeking sex. Things are changing. But are we to convict all men for their sexuality? Not all men sexually harass women. I know that for a fact because I am one of them.
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Nobody is convicting all men for their sexuality. They are just enforcing the agreed upon laws. Don't touch a woman who doesn't want it. Don't say/email/text sexual things to a woman who doesn't want it. Don't use your power as the boss over a woman for sexual things. Cool thing is that it protects men and women. If your boss asks you to wear the tight pants to work, or to pick up things for them you are also protected. So you don't have to feel oppressed.

Do SJW's cross the line sometimes? Of course. But don't throw the baby out with the bathwater!
 
Eenie you sound like a guy who wants to grope people, because genetics, and would hate to face any consequences for it.

Like, treat women well and you never have to worry about this tidal wave of false charges that you are so positive exists.
 
Bawse Dawg said:
And take the women seriously when they say "this society is ****ed up for women and it needs to change".
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It bothers me when such broad statements are made. It makes me feel like myself, my family, my friends, and all the other good people in the country are being accused. There are parts of society that are worse than others, but many (if not most) aspects of society treat women fairly and with respect.
 
checkbookdoc said:
It bothers me when such broad statements are made. It makes me feel like myself, my family, my friends, and all the other good people in the country are being accused. There are parts of society that are worse than others, but many (if not most) aspects of society treat women fairly and with respect.
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I mean, if one in four women are being harassed or worse, that's a problem with society at large. It's too bad that good people of society get lumped into the group. And a woman who has absolutely nothing to fear might feel weird if me and her were walking towards each other on an empty street at night. But that's how it is. And why it's important that we try to change things. And when a women speaks out don't immediately bring the burden of proof down on them. Do you know how hard it is to prove something like that?

Is Kavanaugh guilty? We can't know with 100% certainty. Do I trust the women, and other people who have spoken out against him enough that I don't want the dude to be a supreme court justice? Absolutely.
 
Bawse Dawg said:
Eenie you sound like a guy who wants to grope people, because genetics, and would hate to face any consequences for it.

Like, treat women well and you never have to worry about this tidal wave of false charges that you are so positive exists.
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It’s pretty easy be a decent human and respect boundaries... can’t control yourself and we’ve got a place for you.

I probably go a bit overboard but I flat out just don’t hug co workers or my wives friends unless they clearly signal a hug is in order... I’d rather be a little cold than have someone misinterpret something.

I had a friend (past tense) that got a little touchy feely... hugs and other seemingly “non-threatening” touching. Then hands would occasionally wander and he’d offer casual compliments... had enough creeper vibes that I didn’t want to be around him and didn’t want anyone I care about around him. Maybe he meant well but I don’t give the benefit of the doubt anymore and I’m certainly not gonna be that guy.
 
checkbookdoc said:
It bothers me when such broad statements are made. It makes me feel like myself, my family, my friends, and all the other good people in the country are being accused. There are parts of society that are worse than others, but many (if not most) aspects of society treat women fairly and with respect.
Click to expand...

I generally think the best of people... but I do think women get unwanted attention all the time and harassment is so prevalent that a societal reset is needed... for those that are decent just keep being decent and help others be decent.
 
checkbookdoc said:
First, stop saying it was only her word against him. There was other evidence (hand written notes, emails, texts, coworkers who were aware, other women who also had issues, etc.). He also refused to give evidence that would have countered the evidence against him (emails, texts, computer).

Second, they did give him the right to tell his side of the story, and then decided he was lying. Furthermore, his story has changed over time. Originally, it was that he only touched her back while trying to console her. Now he says that it happened, but it was okay because he was not in a position of power at the show and there was mutual interest. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...t-as-romantic-writing/?utm_term=.80c278c7e087

Interesting piece of info from the article, the woman told Keillor and others at the show that the advances were unwelcome all the way back in 2011. By 2015 she had made 4 other reports. Does this sound like the man was punished without proof?
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Guess you didn't read the same article as me. Who were the other coworkers, who were the other women who had issues. If you read between the lines, the notes, emails and texts all came from one woman, because no others are identified. They fired him before he had a chance to tell his story. Show me in the article where it says otherwise? Quote it. I did say I believed the woman was legit -- the one woman. Try to be more analytical rather than hysterical.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I generally think the best of people... but I do think women get unwanted attention all the time and harassment is so prevalent that a societal reset is needed... for those that are decent just keep being decent and help others be decent.
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And I never said otherwise. I'm talking about accusing people without proof and then everyone jumping on and assuming guilt. That's my beef because there has been plenty of that --- in fact, mostly that.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
It’s pretty easy be a decent human and respect boundaries... can’t control yourself and we’ve got a place for you.

I probably go a bit overboard but I flat out just don’t hug co workers or my wives friends unless they clearly signal a hug is in order... I’d rather be a little cold than have someone misinterpret something.

I had a friend (past tense) that got a little touchy feely... hugs and other seemingly “non-threatening” touching. Then hands would occasionally wander and he’d offer casual compliments... had enough creeper vibes that I didn’t want to be around him and didn’t want anyone I care about around him. Maybe he meant well but I don’t give the benefit of the doubt anymore and I’m certainly not gonna be that guy.
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I feel the same and I'm not married.
 
Bawse Dawg said:
Stop lying.
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I am as honest as the day is long. In fact, probably too honest or haven't you read my posts in the past. I am too open and I get skewered for it. This is my honest opinion. Could I be wrong, perhaps, but I think there is at least a sliver of truth in what I say.
 
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