What's new

*OFFICIAL* 17 on 26, Donovan Mitchell is the Monta Ellis watch thread

idestroyedthetoilet

Well-Known Member
We've seen enough. Play, stats, results, all nearly identical. We need to pray Utah finds their Steph to Monta and that DL doesn't anything irrational by giving Mitchell a bloated contract that will chain this team down for years.
 
I still hold out hope that the player that we saw last year will emerge. I mean he is what 1/3 of the way through his second season as the guy with all the pressure. I think he will figure it out. And the vaunted development staff here better prove they are as good as advertised. That might really be the problem.
 
Players never change or get better at this point in their career. Less than 2 seasons have passed. Dude is what he is. Worthless chucker.

See if we can dump dm somehow and maybe pickup Richard Jefferson or something

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
I love DM... I'm ride or die. If he is Monta Ellis with better defense and amazing off court and locker room presence I don't care. His shooting is getting a bit concerning. He needs another consistent shooting backcourt mate and we need more creation to help support him.

He's our guy!!!!!
 
The man is in Year 2 of his career and has been told to shoulder the team on offense. Some fans can't appreciate when a highly gifted player literally falls into their laps.

I get the concern on him... he's shot the ball worse and made worse reads this year so far. I think a lot of it is mental and some of it is scouting reports and defenses adjusting.

If there is a guy that has ever given us reason to believe though... it's DM. He's a worker and he cares.
 
Last year DM burst on the scene and took the league by storm. He seemed to be in control of most, if not every, 4th quarter the last 3rd of the season. We got spoiled, and maybe he did too. Then came the spotlights and fame and he is struggling a bit to have that same impact. Part of it could be the league adjusting to him, part of it could be him expecting the same success, and part could be the pressure to be THE man. I don't know exactly what it is but he is struggling with his consistency ( and coincidence?). I still trust in his character, and think he will have an all star caliber career. He is going to figure things out. Let's give him room to grow. I would take DM over anyone else in that draft class on character and charisma alone. We would be nuts to play games with him, and try to save a mill or 2. We build the franchise around DM, and sink or swim on the results of how his game develops. We have no better option to be true contenders.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using JazzFanz mobile app
 
If there is a guy that has ever given us reason to believe though... it's DM. He's a worker and he cares.
Do we know that he is a worker and cares? He seems to have worked hard coming into the league and during last season, but that was when he was trying to earn a spot in the league and secure a future for hm and his family. The motivation is very different now and to be honest this summer it doesn't seem like he was much of a workhorse. I mean, he obviously put in work, but we don't know that it was more than an average player.

As for the care factor, I don't think that a recently return missionary (so they aren't biased by last year) would watch this year and think DM has a high care factor or joy/love for the game (as opposed to Rudy). I remember him last year being hungry and energetic. Think of all the rim highlights, or pushing in the open court, or second effort plays from last year. This year they are basically gone. He went from being somewhat comparable to Westbrook, to just an average dude.
 
Do we know that he is a worker and cares? He seems to have worked hard coming into the league and during last season, but that was when he was trying to earn a spot in the league and secure a future for hm and his family. The motivation is very different now and to be honest this summer it doesn't seem like he was much of a workhorse. I mean, he obviously put in work, but we don't know that it was more than an average player.

As for the care factor, I don't think that a recently return missionary (so they aren't biased by last year) would watch this year and think DM has a high care factor or joy/love for the game (as opposed to Rudy). I remember him last year being hungry and energetic. Think of all the rim highlights, or pushing in the open court, or second effort plays from last year. This year they are basically gone. He went from being somewhat comparable to Westbrook, to just an average dude.

He was never Westbrook imo... that guy is an alien athletically. DM is a two foot jumper which means he won't get the highlight plays and dunks nearly as often as other dudes.

He's a worker... made major improvements in season last year... his offseason was partially neutered by the foot injury. Is he more content now than he was a year ago... maybe? A lot of guys struggle second year. I think he cares deeply about winning and being successful. The charisma stuff isn't fake. He's a genuine dude... trust him. There are more expectations so there will be less surprise/joy in certain moments.

Rudy and DM are both guys you can place your full trust in.
 
We've seen enough. Play, stats, results, all nearly identical. We need to pray Utah finds their Steph to Monta and that DL doesn't anything irrational by giving Mitchell a bloated contract that will chain this team down for years.
Did you not watch the game last night? He was taking good shots, they just weren’t falling, one of those nights.
 
Mitchell looks great on the nights when Rubio is worth a damn. When Rubio is off it is way too easy to concentrate on shutting Mitchell down. We need to incorporate more Favors and Rudy pick and rolls to punish the defense when this happens rather than rolling the dice that we will get hot from three. We are falling in love with the three pointer too much and it makes us easier to defend, Mitchell or no. . .
 
do you know how long it took gordon haywood to get where DM is right now?

He's in year 2 and it took haywood 5- 6seasons to reach an actual good season.
 
gilbert arena shot so poorly in his 3rd year people forget this(sub 40%) then next 3years he's the best offensive player in the NBA next to KOBE.

calm your **** boys
 
Most of the shots he took were good makable shots, just didn’t go down.
I just rewatched the game with the explicit purpose of seeing what wrong Mitchell did to deserve the comments here. With the exception of a couple of shots that EVERY SINGLE primary scorer in the league gets EVERY SINGLE GAME, everything else was in the flow of the offense - either on penetration to the rim, or wide open on the catch or coming off the pick and roll, or with expiring shotclock or in transition. He had a couple of turnovers where he got caught in the air without a clear idea about what he's gonna do. Those are not ideal and he should try to eliminate them, but they happen.

I have close to zero issue with what Mitchell did and I actually thought he played his heart out on defense because he felt that he was letting his team down because of all the missed shots and was trying to effect the game in other ways... which he did. And then he was clutch at the FT line in the final minute. My problem with him right now is not with the shots he takes... it's that he doesn't make them with the consistency he needs to.

shot 1 first possession of the game, coming off the PnR Durant gives him space, he knocks down the shot(that's with 5 second on the shotclock)
shot 2 driving to the paint in transition gets blocked from behind
shot 3 penetration all the way to the rim... good shot just misses the it with the left hand
shot 4 penetration to the rim, makes the layup
TO1: penetrates in the paint... gets caught in the air without an option to pass to... bad TO... needs to eliminate this
TO2: coming off the PnR, decides to pass to rolling Gobert but he doesn't look for the ball assuming Mitchell will shoot... miscommunication
shot 5 penetrates in the paint, puts his shoulder into the defender and creates enough space for a clean shot(floater) but misses it... not a great shot, but nothing egregious when you consider we had 8 seconds left in the shotclock
shot 6 eurostep in transition, fakes out Draymond, but gets blocked from behind by Curry
shot 7 miss from 3 in ISO vs Jerebko with 3 seconds left on the clock. The shot is wide open. Jerebko gets faked out of his shoes and doesn't even put a hand up.
shot 8 PnR, gets in the paint and is well defended by Thompson, throw a bad floatery shot vs contest.
------------ this is Q1^ I only see 1 shot that's clearly objectionable
shot 9 great penetration vs Iguodala, goes straight to the rim... just misses the layup with the left hand against late contest from Draymond
shot 10 ISO vs looney, gets in the paint, again creates enough space for uninterrupted floater, misses it but then gets his own rebound and scores
shot 11 see 10. scores the layup on the rebound from his own shot
TO3: gets the ball with 5 seconds on the clock at 25 feet away from the basket, drives and gets tied with Durant for jumpball
TO4: Thompson straight up strips him clean on a drive
shot 12 Misses a FT but gets the steal on the outlet pass, gets absolutely hammered from behind by Iggy... the refs swallow the whistle... this counts as a missed shot FFS.
shot 13 Spaces out to the corner on a transition, Ricky finds him... misses the open 3.
shot 14 Final seconds of the half, keeps the ball for final possession, creates a good shot with a step back 3 vs Thompson, misses
---------^literally zero complaints about his shots from me in Q2. Well... maybe the iso vs Looney could have been better shot elsewhere, but every primary scorer gets some of those possessions in every single game

shot 15 gets a free release off of a off-screen action with Gobert, gets wide open jumpshot from FT line, makes it
shot 16 gets cut off on a penetration by Thompson. Tries to find a teammate, noone's open and he gets stripped. I have no idea why this is counted as a shot. This is a turnover, not a shot.
shot 17 Iso vs Looney. Gets to the rim, gets bumped and fouled, no foul called... the shot is missed. He's looking at the refs with disgust.
shot 18 Wide open 3 from a hand off from Ingles... makes it
shot 19 Spaces to the corner in semi-transition. Ricky finds him for the open 3, misses!
shot 20 Driving layup in semi-transition after he beats his man on the catch. Met by Draymond at the rim. You can see him looking for someone to pass to, but noone is open. There are 3 players in the clogged paint around him, because both Favors and Gobert are in the paint and Ingles is covered on the perimeter. Misses the shot.
shot 21 Penetrates in the paint. Again uses his body well and creates a wide open floater from 6-7 feet, no contest from anybody... misses it.
------------------^this is Q3
shot 22 Open 3 in transition. You can see miscommunication between Jerebko and Livingston both pointing toward him. They don't know who should take him. Eventually Jerebko tries to cover him, Mitchell sees that he can get an open 3 and takes it with 18 seconds on the clock. Is this ideal? Probably not, but come on. If this one goes in we praise him for his awareness that he saw noone was picking him up and got a free shot out of it. I really don't have much of a problem with this one.
shot 23 WIDE OPEN catch and shoot 3p shot in transition. Misses it. He missed everything in transition in this game...
shot 24 WIDE OPEN catch and shoot 3 in semi-transition. Noone picked him up as a trailer again. Misses.
shot 25 We get the ball out of bounds with 1.2 seconds left on the shotclock. Misses and quick give and go 3.
TO5: beats Thompson off the dribble and gets in the paint, jumps to pass the ball but gets caught in the air and travels.
shot 26 WIDE OPEN catch and shoot 3 on the wing, misses.
TO6: bad TO, dribbles off his foot.

---------------this was Q4...

This is very far from a good game for Mitchell but his shot selection was the last thing to worry about. It's not the shots he takes... it's the fact that he's missing the shots that he should be taking that's troubling. If people don't want him to be taking 90% of those shots they should not want him to be in the game altogether, because they are good shots and if it's not him taking them, it should be someone else taking them. Also... some of his TOs are preventable and he should work on not jumping without clear plan.
 
He was never Westbrook imo... that guy is an alien athletically. DM is a two foot jumper which means he won't get the highlight plays and dunks nearly as often as other dudes.

He's a worker... made major improvements in season last year... his offseason was partially neutered by the foot injury. Is he more content now than he was a year ago... maybe? A lot of guys struggle second year. I think he cares deeply about winning and being successful. The charisma stuff isn't fake. He's a genuine dude... trust him. There are more expectations so there will be less surprise/joy in certain moments.

Rudy and DM are both guys you can place your full trust in.

Let me be clear, I am not saying I don't want DM. I still think he is going to be a very good player, but I think it is CRAZY to say that we should trust that he will work and care as much as Rudy. Rudy has come back hungry and improved every year. He went from D-league, to rotation, to starter, to max player, to DPOY, to now without ever turning it down a notch.

The fact is 99% of everyone in the NBA is an above average worker (relative to normal people), but compared to the other NBA players there is no reason to think that right now, over the summer, or going forward DM was or is above average.

Also, there is a difference between charisma and being genuine, in fact these characteristics are often negatively correlated. When asked a question and a player has to chose between 1) saying the truth or 2) saying what is most beneficial to them, what do you think they will say? Just like everyone else does, DM chooses to say what is most beneficial for himself (true or not). Do I think DM is a good dude? Yes. Do I think every answer he gives is true? No. DM is just more polished than most and so he is better at playing the narrative that is best for him.
 
Top