asian_roger
Well-Known Member
That's so true it's not even funny.
Championship Contenders Build The Front Court First!
- Thread starter 7StraightIsGreat
- Start date
That's so true it's not even funny.
jimmy eat jazz
Well-Known Member
You mean like Dallas, Miami, OKC, and Chicago? Yep they're absolutely built from the front line. (yep sarcasm my iPhone doesn't have a rolly eyes smiley face)
Let's see, of those four teams, which won the championship: DALLAS. They have a pretty good front line (Nowitzki: 9th overall pick; Tyson Chandler: 2nd overall pick; Brendan Haywood: 20th overall pick). Anybody could win if they had two superstars (LeBron James and Dwayne Wade) and an all-star (Chris Bosh) on their team (Miami to the lay person). However, they lacked talented-enough players at their other positions (like Center), which ultimately was their downfall. OKC built their tea similarly to how we are: THROUGH THE DRAFT. They have star-caliber players at PG and SF to go along with talent everywhere else. However, their incapability to match up against the Mavs front court players was their undoing. Chicago has the league MVP at PG and good players at all other positions. However, they are built very similarly to the way that the LeBron James-era Cavs were built and look how far that got them. The recent back-to-back Champion Lakers had a dominant front court with a superstar wing player. The Spurs had a dominant front court with good to great wing players (Parker and Ginobili).
The "good to great" wing players is where we have always had the problem.
Dallas has shown that you dont always need a dominant inside big man to win it all. And they have made it to the Finals twice in the last 5 years, so it is not a total fluke either. But you do need a couple of playmakers and some decent outside shooting and good interior defense.
Dallas has shown that you dont always need a dominant inside big man to win it all. And they have made it to the Finals twice in the last 5 years, so it is not a total fluke either. But you do need a couple of playmakers and some decent outside shooting and good interior defense.
jimmy eat jazz
Well-Known Member
I never said that a front line wasn't important. Clearly it is, or can be. The OP, however, said that championship contenders build the front court FIRST.
This year, the semifinals included 4 teams built around wing players or a point guard (Nowitski is a power forward but plays more like a small forward). Their primary players: Miami-Wade (SG), James (SF), OKC-Durant (SF), Westbrook (PG), Dallas-Nowitski (PF/SF), Terry (PG/SG), Chicago-Rose (PG) I'm not sure who the second player on Chicago is.
On all these teams, the C and PF, with exception of Bosh on Miami, are complementary players. Good to very good at times, but complementary. (Chandler and Noah are decent players but clearly not the focal point of the team.)
Sure, the Lakers and Spurs have dominant to very good front lines, but the Lakers are clearly Kobe Bryant's team, and he is the focal point for building the team, while Duncan is, or was, the focal point, but a PG and SG were the other focal points on the team and instrumental to its success. When Miami won a few years back, Shaq was key, but the team was clearly build around and for Wade, the team's biggest superstar.
In any case, I'm sure there are examples of Championship teams or contenders who built from the frontline, I never suggested there weren't, but there are enough counterexamples to demonstrate that the OP is NOT accurate. It is another lazy conventional wisdom cliche.
This year, the semifinals included 4 teams built around wing players or a point guard (Nowitski is a power forward but plays more like a small forward). Their primary players: Miami-Wade (SG), James (SF), OKC-Durant (SF), Westbrook (PG), Dallas-Nowitski (PF/SF), Terry (PG/SG), Chicago-Rose (PG) I'm not sure who the second player on Chicago is.
On all these teams, the C and PF, with exception of Bosh on Miami, are complementary players. Good to very good at times, but complementary. (Chandler and Noah are decent players but clearly not the focal point of the team.)
Sure, the Lakers and Spurs have dominant to very good front lines, but the Lakers are clearly Kobe Bryant's team, and he is the focal point for building the team, while Duncan is, or was, the focal point, but a PG and SG were the other focal points on the team and instrumental to its success. When Miami won a few years back, Shaq was key, but the team was clearly build around and for Wade, the team's biggest superstar.
In any case, I'm sure there are examples of Championship teams or contenders who built from the frontline, I never suggested there weren't, but there are enough counterexamples to demonstrate that the OP is NOT accurate. It is another lazy conventional wisdom cliche.
Aww you make too much sense.
Completely agree with this, i did a little research about the teams who have won the championship in the last 10 years, heres who they had playing at the point:
2011: 38 y/o Jason Kidd
2010: Derek Fisher
2009: Derek Fisher
2008: Rajon Rondo (before he got good)
2007: Tony Parker
2006: Jason Williams
2005: Tony Parker
2004: Chauncey Billups
2003: Tony Parker
2002: Fisher/Lindsey Hunter
2001: 37 y/o Ron Harper/Fisher
Of that group only Billups and Parker are all-star caliber players and they're not exactly superstars...
7StraightIsGreat
Well-Known Member
In my OP I aknowledged the fact that some believe you build a contender with a PG and used D-Rose by name, among others. Whether you think my post was "accurate" or not doesn't change the fact that I strongly believe the way to build a team into a legit, long-term contender is by trying to build yourself the best frontcourt that you possibly can. Look at Betzza's post of the last 10 PG's to win a title and I think it gives some very solid evidence to back up my opinion. And of all the teams you named that were contending for the title this year, the team with the best frontcourt of the group ended up winning it all. You called me wrong, yet in a round about way actually helped me make my point. Thank you.
And for those saying some of us are getting ahead of ourselves: Im not declaring that the Utah Jazz are now a contender. I'm simply voicing my approval of the Kanter pick because I think it was the right way to go. From the day D-Will was traded I came on here and said that if the Jazz are going to truly rebuild into a title contender I would like to see them build it around the frontcourt.
There is more than one way to build a title contender, I just happen to believe the most effective way to do this is with big men (if you can get them).
He is a Kanter homer. He wants Kanter to start right away even though he hasn't played competitively in ages. I think we really need to keep Jefferson to let Kanter grow. I think throwing him into the fire would not be a good idea and would hurt his development.