DM on AD

[idiot]

A few random thoughts:

- Maybe we ought to cool it with the analogies. The OP rightly noted that contracted players aren't the same as an ordinary person who can be fired at will. But then people supporting the OP have gone on to say that the right analogy is any other person in a contract situation (forgetting various things that make professional sports quite unique: a special dispensation from Congress to form an oligopoly, maximum contracts and mandated far-below-value contracts for those who choose not to play the team-control game, no real true free agency for the first seven years (more than an average career length) and none at all at the beginning, extremely strong cultural value placed on historical legacy based on team wins, fandom and marketing opportunities, ability to be traded with no say [not just to another branch of the same company, but to a completely different company], etc.)

- The OP didn't do it, but I always wonder how closely lurking in the background for many people who hear about this is something like: "I can't support Donovan as a fan as much if he doesn't have the correct view about the sanctity of contracts." We obviously can't agree among ourselves about what the proper attitude toward contracts and player movement is. I hope we're not letting this color our view of a 23-year old who may have a different view than some of us do.

- It should come as no surprise that players support more freedom when it appears to be a realistic option. Whether it's good for the league in the long run is probably immaterial (and likely not something we should be expecting someone in a player's position to have clear, deep thoughts about). Almost any one of us put in that situation would prefer more freedom. It would be in our best interest, just as it's in Donovan's best interest.

-Won't it mean more if, while championing the freedom for player movement generally, Donovan chooses to stay with the Jazz past the first opportunity to leave and maybe even stays his whole career here?

 

[oneye]

Alright, well we are just going in circles so I'll step away.

I'll just say that the same place where those binding, all important, word of god contracts were negotiated was the same place where tampering rules, fines, etc. were negotiated. In the CBA, which the players and owners both agreed too. If you want a new CBA, great. But I'm guessing you care very little about the sanctity of a multi million dollar contract, and it's more likely that the player empowerment movement just has fans of small market Utah shaking in their boots a bit.

Not really, I really do care about honoring what you signed your name to and it bugs me when my job is compared to something that’s not even close to the same. Sure I care about fairness to my team, but the overall picture and mindset is something I don’t like as well beyond just the Jazz point of view.

 

[Douchebag K]

I’m surprised how little heat AD has copped for being such a KD *****. Coz he’s not actually good enough to take a team anywhere. Happy to sign a contract for 150 million but running off when things aren’t going well enough at the age of what ..25 ??

Kind of like when he just quits some games when he’s going up against Rudy. No respect. I hope NOLA just make him play out his contract.

 

[oneye]

A few random thoughts:

- Maybe we ought to cool it with the analogies. The OP rightly noted that contracted players aren't the same as an ordinary person who can be fired at will. But then people supporting the OP have gone on to say that the right analogy is any other person in a contract situation (forgetting various things that make professional sports quite unique: a special dispensation from Congress to form an oligopoly, maximum contracts and mandated far-below-value contracts for those who choose not to play the team-control game, no real true free agency for the first seven years (more than an average career length) and none at all at the beginning, extremely strong cultural value placed on historical legacy based on team wins, fandom and marketing opportunities, ability to be traded with no say [not just to another branch of the same company, but to a completely different company], etc.)

- The OP didn't do it, but I always wonder how closely lurking in the background for many people who hear about this is something like: "I can't support Donovan as a fan as much if he doesn't have the correct view about the sanctity of contracts." We obviously can't agree among ourselves about what the proper attitude toward contracts and player movement is. I hope we're not letting this color our view of a 23-year old who may have a different view than some of us do.

- It should come as no surprise that players support more freedom when it appears to be a realistic option. Whether it's good for the league in the long run is probably immaterial (and likely not something we should be expecting someone in a player's position to have clear, deep thoughts about). Almost any one of us put in that situation would prefer more freedom. It would be in our best interest, just as it's in Donovan's best interest.

-Won't it mean more if, while championing the freedom for player movement generally, Donovan chooses to stay with the Jazz past the first opportunity to leave and maybe even stays his whole career here?

The part about supporting Donovan. I like Donovan, good person, good player, that’s fine. Two comments that I fully disagree with is the comparison he made to normal employment and the comment on it doesn’t matter when you choose to look for other employment. Yeah the time kinda does matter when you agree to a contract for a given period of time. That to me is him just saying contracts are pretty much meaningless. Do I respect that thought process? No not really. If I sign my name to something or commit to something I’m going to do it. That’s just me.

As for your last part I think it’s highly unlikely. Players are impatient and due to the unequal-footing even 6-7 years is a short period of time for a small market to build something meangingful. The biggest reason Karl and John didn’t win multiple championships is 100% because the Jazz are not on equal footing and the Jazz attempted many times to make it work but guys weren’t willing to be drafted or traded here. The Jazz can have the best ran FO in the league and the Lakers can still have the advantage. Which that’s just the reality of it. You do have to do everything right if you’re the Jazz and then you can do everything right and still end up with the short end of the stick.

So yes I care how it impacts the Jazz but I also just care about the principle of it as well, I’m not a fan of signing your name to something and not standing behind it.

 

[Sandman822]

I’m surprised how little heat AD has copped for being such a KD *****. Coz he’s not actually good enough to take a team anywhere. Happy to sign a contract for 150 million but running off when things aren’t going well enough at the age of what ..25 ??

Kind of like when he just quits some games when he’s going up against Rudy. No respect. I hope NOLA just make him play out his contract.

Asking for a trade midseason and having a couple of lottery teams being the preferred destinations among others is very different to a guy leaving his team in FA to join a team that won 73 games and kicked your team out of the playoffs the season prior.

He's caught heat for asking for one so early but he should be getting more blame instead of guys like Rich Paul/LeBron/Lakers GMs who seem to be catching just as much if not more heat for the situation since AD's the one who has to sign off on all of it. It kind of reminds me more of the Melo trade situation except he's doing it a year earlier.

 

[The mailman]

I don’t think that asking for a trade is the issue - the issue is making your request public. A player should honor his contract like any other working person in the world is expected to. If you have no intention of resigning with the team, and you request a trade, at least keep it private. That way the team is not handcuffed and can try to get something of equal value for you.

 

[NAOS]

AD has had 7 years of hype and adoration. He’s won one playoff series. I’ve seen him mail it in more than anyone else dubbed a superstar.

I’m not rooting for him.

If he goes to LA, then I hope it’s for a King’s ransom. And that it doesn’t work out due to personalities and/or injuries.

 

[oneye]

I don’t think that asking for a trade is the issue - the issue is making your request public. A player should honor his contract like any other working person in the world is expected to. If you have no intention of resigning with the team, and you request a trade, at least keep it private. That way the team is not handcuffed and can try to get something of equal value for you.

I also don’t care for the lying. “I want to go somewhere that I can win a championship” ...... “I will re-sign with only the Lakers, Knicks, or Clippers” Okay, if you’re going to do this don’t treat us all like we’re stupid.

 

[Douchebag K]

AD = a big sooky *****

 

[Bawse Dawg]

Perspective and empathy are not rampant feelings around here.

 

[infection]

AD has had 7 years of hype and adoration. He’s won one playoff series. I’ve seen him mail it in more than anyone else dubbed a superstar.

I’m not rooting for him.

If he goes to LA, then I hope it’s for a King’s ransom. And that it doesn’t work out due to personalities and/or injuries.

This. I hate when guys get hyped who aren’t hard workers. By hard worker, I don’t mean a guy who spends a lot of time in the gym. I mean a guy who gives it his all, has his teammates’ backs, and doesn’t check out when the going gets tough. Guys that have driven me insane the most were TMac dating back to Orlando days and Dwight dating back to Orlando days. Melo too. I was ahead of the curve on those guys. I think when we beat NOP the last time we played them last year and saw AD leave the bench early for the locker room was a huge douche move to his team. The whole attitude is that he’s above other guys. Oh yeah? Win the ****ing game, you douche.

 

[infection]

Perspective and empathy are not rampant feelings around here.

I think the problem we’re having here are players unable to adequately empathize with regular folk and have that perspective, as evidenced by OP.

 

[oneye]

I think the problem we’re having here are players unable to adequately empathize with regular folk and have that perspective, as evidenced by OP.

Our jobs are the same as there’s, then they belittle our intelligence by saying they are doing this because they want to win, and all of them have the Knicks as a destination they would accept. Yeah okay guys. You want to push your way out of contracts you willingly signed, lie about why you want out of them, and then want empathy and understanding over it. Sure thing. Keep your word on the contracts you signed, don’t belittle my intelligence, and don’t compare my job where I could be let go at any given moment to your 5 years of guaranteed salary and employment, and then maybe many if us won’t look at it so negatively.

 

[fishonjazz]

Perspective and empathy are not rampant feelings around here.

Depends on the situation. I have tons of empathy for people. Even got empathy for AD. I'm empathetic for his eyebrows and teeth. I'm not empathetic that the poor guy has to play pro ball for millions in new Orleans for a while longer. Should I be? Are you?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Bawse Dawg]

If they were honest you’d hate them more than ever.

“New Orleans is lame and the fans stink, and they suck at team building, I’ll be much happier somewhere else”

“I’d rather play with Brad Stevens in the East in Boston than stay in Utah, suck it up”

“I hated playing with Westbrook, in Golden State I’ll be able to finally win championships and I think that will make me a more happy person.”

Y’all would NOT accept these reasons. So instead they have to belittle your intelligence.

 

[Bawse Dawg]

Depends on the situation. I have tons of empathy for people. Even got empathy for AD. I'm empathetic for his eyebrows and teeth. I'm not empathetic that the poor guy has to play pro ball for millions in new Orleans for a while longer. Should I be? Are you?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

I don’t feel bad for him.

But I can try to understand where his feelings are coming from.

 

[oneye]

If they were honest you’d hate them more than ever.

“New Orleans is lame and the fans stink, and they suck at team building, I’ll be much happier somewhere else”

“I’d rather play with Brad Stevens in the East in Boston than stay in Utah, suck it up”

“I hated playing with Westbrook, in Golden State I’ll be able to finally win championships and I think that will make me a more happy person.”

Y’all would NOT accept these reasons. So instead they have to belittle your intelligence.

You can be truthful without being an *******. Something you obviously know nothing about. People still mad? Yeah, but more from a fan perspective than a personal perspective when you’re down playing my intelligence by so obviously lying to me.

 

[latin jazz]

So there is no reason to have a player with giant value because you might have to trade them and get giant value back?

Dont be a moron. That's like saying you wouldnt date the hottest girl in the world because she might leave you (but in this dumb analogy you get like 3-4 other women back when the hot one leaves, so its even more of a no-brainer). Get it while you can and take the risk.

I would take the 3-4 woman. Are they hot too? I have a thing for Korean girls, so one is must.

 

[infection]

If they were honest you’d hate them more than ever.

“New Orleans is lame and the fans stink, and they suck at team building, I’ll be much happier somewhere else”

“I’d rather play with Brad Stevens in the East in Boston than stay in Utah, suck it up”

“I hated playing with Westbrook, in Golden State I’ll be able to finally win championships and I think that will make me a more happy person.”

Y’all would NOT accept these reasons. So instead they have to belittle your intelligence.

I have a lot of things I think at work, too, that I don’t say. Where is this going?

 

[JAZZGASM]

It would be the same if I was drafted and had to work for a certain employer if I wanted to work in my profession. If a player wants to leave that is up to them. I just hate that they have no fire to earn it themselves instead of joining power squads