2011 NBA Free Agent List
- Thread starter Beantown
- Start date
GVC
Well-Known Member
No one "carries" a team to an 8-17 record. Sorry.
Marty McFly
Well-Known Member
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
You're entitled to your opinion. I only take issue with looking at a few statistics and drawing overwrought conclusions. No one alive doesn't think Al needs to draw more fouls. No one alive doesn't think Al needs to learn to pass better out of the double team. I don't put nearly the same emphasis on the 'out of shape' argument, but that's whatever.
But if you can't see what a skilled player he is then I suggest you pony up for next year's package. When you have a player that skilled, you figure out how to make him work in your offense. I love Sap, but he doesn't have Al's natural talent. My biggest belief is that Ty needs to impress upon Al the importance of setting up with better post position. If Al only does that, he'll put up All Star numbers next year.
Favors Flave
Well-Known Member
GVC
Well-Known Member
Millsap figures out a way to be very productive and efficient, regardless of what is asked of him. That counts for a lot in a team game like basketball. Jefferson just isn't good enough to build around IMO, so if he can't find a way to fit in (while still using these natural talents, of course), he's probably not worth keeping around.
These are differences in philosophy/valuation. I'm glad we've come to an understanding. Go Jazz!
Favors Flave
Well-Known Member
And GVC, I agree on some of your disagreements.
1. Transition has never been apart of his game.
2. He was always the go to guy in Minny, but now he had to come to Utah and learn to be the second best player on the fly. Add to the fact almost no one succeeds in their first year of the Jazz system you got to cut him some slack. Sure, he isn't the best passer but he improved late in the year in that regard
3. He dropped 20 pounds last year and now I bet he is working his *** off to get in even better shape
1. Transition has never been apart of his game.
2. He was always the go to guy in Minny, but now he had to come to Utah and learn to be the second best player on the fly. Add to the fact almost no one succeeds in their first year of the Jazz system you got to cut him some slack. Sure, he isn't the best passer but he improved late in the year in that regard
3. He dropped 20 pounds last year and now I bet he is working his *** off to get in even better shape
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
Favors Flave
Well-Known Member
I think Big Al got much more accustomed to the offense as the season went on. It's just too bad that they blew up the team right as that started to happen.
GVC
Well-Known Member
I don't see how my post implied that argument. I just think it's pretty meaningless to applaud a player for "carrying" a team to a bad record.
Favors Flave
Well-Known Member
GVC- Looking at my list at the top of the page, who would you rather have than Big Al? Not trying to start an argument, but just trying to see your stance on big men who you think are better
Honestly and sincerely, please stop hi-jacking threads so you guys can go on ENDLESSLY about the Al Jefferson debate. Cool, its a worthy topic, just not in this 2011 NBA FREE AGENT LIST thread.
Mods, please move this to the as yet to be made "these two will post the same **** just worded differently until the end of time without either one budging an inch" thread.
Mods, please move this to the as yet to be made "these two will post the same **** just worded differently until the end of time without either one budging an inch" thread.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
Your argument is the teams Al played for lost, therefore he must not be a good player. It's not far off from what you termed a 'baseless assertion,' much like my own baseless assertion passed off as validity.
And yes, Al did carry us to 8 more wins than we should have had in that stretch.
Al was not the problem when he put up 26 and 8 in a loss to the Bulls on 2/9
He wasn't the problem when he put up 32 and 10 in a loss to Phoenix on 2/15
He wasn't the problem when he had 30 and 8 in a 119-98 loss to Dallas on 2/23.
He wasn't the problem when he had 28 and 19 in a 107-102 loss to Boston on 2/28.
He wasn't the problem when he went 19/10 with 6 blocks against Denver on 3/3.
He wasn't the problem when he put up 36/12 in a 131-109 loss to the Knicks on 3/7.
He wasn't the problem when he put up 33 and 18 in a 118-100 loss to the Bulls on 3/12.
He wasn't the problem when he put up 32 and 12 in a 3/23 loss to OKC.
He wasn't the problem when he put up 22 and 13 in a 3/24 loss to NO.
The guy had some stinkers mixed in there like any player where he definitely was the problem. But to argue there is a correlation between Al putting up monster numbers and the team losing is just silly.
GVC
Well-Known Member
Nope.
Favors Flave
Well-Known Member
Why some people want this guy gone is beyond me. Those are Dwight Howard #'s
Marty McFly
Well-Known Member
I'm willing to bet GVC said this same crap about Pau Gasol when he was on the ****ty Grizzlies. Suddenly he goes to the Lakers and he's head and shoulders better than Jefferson. LOL.
Gyp Rosetti
Banned
Just looked on ESPN Insider's Best Buys in NBA free agency list.
1. Glen Davis
2. Fes
3. C.J. Miles
I kid you not. I'm of the notion that we should re-sign Fes, really, really cheap for two years. You can't teach his size and he'd be so far down the rotation list that nothing negative could come from it. If AK leaves and Jefferson comes into camp in much better shape as we expect too, most of that blase attitude would be gone. We'd have a group of hard working guys that could perhaps motivate Fes. And if nothing else, he could be a guy to dangle as trade bait come February. Playoff teams are always looking for bigs for the playoff run and what he may be worth a later 1st to some team trying to win a ring.
1. Glen Davis
2. Fes
3. C.J. Miles
I kid you not. I'm of the notion that we should re-sign Fes, really, really cheap for two years. You can't teach his size and he'd be so far down the rotation list that nothing negative could come from it. If AK leaves and Jefferson comes into camp in much better shape as we expect too, most of that blase attitude would be gone. We'd have a group of hard working guys that could perhaps motivate Fes. And if nothing else, he could be a guy to dangle as trade bait come February. Playoff teams are always looking for bigs for the playoff run and what he may be worth a later 1st to some team trying to win a ring.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
Gasol: Memphis won for 3 years while he was there. Top scorers on those teams: Gasol, Posey, Bonzi Wells, Mike Miller, Jason Williams, Battier, Swift, Wright. Went back to sucking in 06/07. Top Scorers on those teams: Gasol, Miller, Chucky Atkins, Warrick, Gay (rookie). His coaches when they won were Hubie Brown and Mike Fratello. When they lost Marc Iavaroni and Sidney Lowe.
KG: His second year started the Flip Saunders era which would produce 7 consecutive first round exits. In year 8, they lost the Conference Finals. Those teams had Marbury and Gugliotta early on, and went on to include guys like Billups, Cassell, Sprewell, Anthony Peeler, Sczerbiak. They started sucking again in 2005 2006. Leading scorers on that team: Garnett, Szerbiak, Ricky Davis, Marcus Banks, Mark Blount.
Big Al: Comes onto a team that KG certainly couldn't make better for 2 years.
His 07/08 team top scorers: Jefferson, McCants, Foye, Gomes, Craig Smith (everybody 25 or younger). Starting point Telfair.
His 08/09 team top scorers: Jefferson, Foye, Gomes, Love (rookie), Smith (Gomes the elder statesman at 26.) McHale replaces Wittman.
His 09/10 team top scorers: Jefferson, Love, Flynn, Corey Brewer, Gomes (starting ages 25, 21, 20, 23, 27) Rookie Flynn replaces Telfair at the point.
Look at those teams. Someone has to explain to me how a Gasol, Duncan, or Dwight Howard was going to make those teams win. Garnett couldn't do it. So it blows my mind that Al is somehow tagged with not being able to make THOSE guys better. And all while he cycled through Wittman, McHale, and then Rambis' triangle.
Favors Flave
Well-Known Member
They didn't implode. The Jazz were one of the best teams, hit a slump and then the trade happened. With a new coach and everything, no one expected the Jazz to have a winning record. They went into rebuilding mode