fishonjazz
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Gamethread: Utah Jazz @ Los Angeles Lakers 4/7/19 7:30 pm MDT
- Thread starter gandalfe
- Start date
elan_prodigy
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Unless you had money on the game I really dont understand the frustration.
Our seeding is basically fixed, we're just rolling the legs over now until the playoffs.
Regular season NBA is bad enough by March and April its almost unwatchable and definitely dont wager.
Our seeding is basically fixed, we're just rolling the legs over now until the playoffs.
Regular season NBA is bad enough by March and April its almost unwatchable and definitely dont wager.
elan_prodigy
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What guys do we have from the G-league?? Any 'finds' the FO has had has been from Europe.
elan_prodigy
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Im not buying us tanking either, goes against everything Quin teaches.
Sean
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You got me. I guess I could say middle of the pack playoff team and that'd fit better. I was thinking playoffs, typed conference ... but that really hammers my point: the Jazz has not been a true Western threat since the pinnacle of the Stockton & Malone era. The Jazz last made the WCF in 2007 - over ten years ago. Here's a list of franchises who've made it more recently:
Golden State
Houston
Oklahoma City
San Antonio
Memphis
Phoenix
Los Angeles Lakers
San Antonio
Denver
That's nine teams out of 15 who've made the Conference Finals more recently than the Jazz. That's 60% of the conference - which puts the Jazz at the bottom 40% with the likes of the Clippers, Kings, Blazers, T-Wolves and Dallas. Utah is also abysmally bad in the second round over that same stretch. In fact, they're god-awful. I wouldn't be surprised if the Jazz has the worst overall second-round record since their last trip to the WCF of any team who's made it to the second round more than once. 3-16 in second-round series going back to 2008 - and two of those wins came in that 2008 season against the Lakers. 3-16! That takes skill to be THAT bad in a seven game series. That includes two sweeps and one series that very well should have been a sweep (last year against Houston).
How you can look at those stats and state the Jazz are anything but middle of the pack is beyond me. It's the definition of being a middle of the pack WC team - which, to their credit, they do consistently. They're not good enough to ever be a threat to come out of the west and they're not bad enough to fall in the bottom-half of the conference.
Just as the franchise has been since game six of the semifinals against Portland in 1999 - a game they lost and all but ended any hope of the franchise delivering a NBA title for a long, long time.
Going back to that 1999 season, twenty years ago, the Jazz is just 1-5 in second round series (overall record: 10-25). Thank God Golden State upset the Mavs or it'd be even worse.
Until the Jazz can even get back to the Conference Finals, my view of them being a ho-hum franchise won't change. No one looks at the Jazz right now as a threat to come out of the West. And why would they? History has been a pretty good indicator of what to expect from Utah in the playoffs: if they get out of the first round, they almost certainly are going to lose, very likely lopsidedly, in the second round. As it was in 1999. As it was 2000. As it was in 2008. As it was in 2010. As it was in 2017. As it was 2018. And as it will be in 2019.
That's what middle of the pack teams do.
fishonjazz
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Kind of like how the Jazz back when they first started making the playoffs and lost in the 1st or second round 8 years in a row? They were pretty middle of the pack I guess and should have been rebuilt. 2 years before the finals run we lost in the first round.
Sean
Well-Known Member
I'll always be a fan but I'm not going to fool myself into expecting greatness from this team when they continually fail to actually show the progress needed to be great.
As for the Jazz early in the Stockton & Malone era, you're right. There was an eight-year gap where they were pretty middle of the pack. The difference is that they actually had some competitive second-round series and quickly built themselves into a franchise that didn't just roll over in the second round. Four years into that era, they took the World Champion Lakers to seven games in a series widely regarded as one of the best in franchise history. Four years after that, they were in the WCF and went down fighting against an experienced, deep and talented Portland team.
We're not talking just eight years, though. We're talking the exact same season playing out the last twenty years. Again, my issue isn't just that they've failed to win a second round series. That's part of it, as I already showed nine other WC franchises have made the conference finals more recently than the Jazz, but it's also their lack of even being marginally competitive in these series.
And for that, I don't even have to go back to the tail-end of the Stockton & Malone era. It's been like that the last decade.
2008's Jazz was the last real good Utah team - and they played the Lakers pretty damn tough in that series. Since?
2009's Jazz lost 1-4 to the Lakers. 2010's Jazz lost 0-4 to the Lakers. 2012's Jazz lost 0-4 to the Spurs. 2017's Jazz lost 0-4 to the Warriors. 2018's Jazz lost 1-4 to the Rockets.
In series they were bounced from the playoffs, the Jazz just isn't competitive - and haven't been in a long, long time. That's a 2-20 record. Props to 'em for really doing well in that 4/5 match-up, though, as they've won every series there (which have gone a minimum of six games each time over that span)...but I'm skeptical of the next big step because, as a fan for 20 years now, I've yet to see it.
Don't get me wrong, I hope this is the year. But right now, if the season ended today, we're set for a repeat performance of what we've experienced pretty much every season the last decade - the Jazz have a good shot in the first round and absolutely zero shot in the second. Frankly, I'm hoping the Jazz drop below 5th just to shake things up and give us something new because as is, I think the Jazz could take Portland in seven and would then get absolutely wrecked by the Warriors again.
As for the Jazz early in the Stockton & Malone era, you're right. There was an eight-year gap where they were pretty middle of the pack. The difference is that they actually had some competitive second-round series and quickly built themselves into a franchise that didn't just roll over in the second round. Four years into that era, they took the World Champion Lakers to seven games in a series widely regarded as one of the best in franchise history. Four years after that, they were in the WCF and went down fighting against an experienced, deep and talented Portland team.
We're not talking just eight years, though. We're talking the exact same season playing out the last twenty years. Again, my issue isn't just that they've failed to win a second round series. That's part of it, as I already showed nine other WC franchises have made the conference finals more recently than the Jazz, but it's also their lack of even being marginally competitive in these series.
And for that, I don't even have to go back to the tail-end of the Stockton & Malone era. It's been like that the last decade.
2008's Jazz was the last real good Utah team - and they played the Lakers pretty damn tough in that series. Since?
2009's Jazz lost 1-4 to the Lakers. 2010's Jazz lost 0-4 to the Lakers. 2012's Jazz lost 0-4 to the Spurs. 2017's Jazz lost 0-4 to the Warriors. 2018's Jazz lost 1-4 to the Rockets.
In series they were bounced from the playoffs, the Jazz just isn't competitive - and haven't been in a long, long time. That's a 2-20 record. Props to 'em for really doing well in that 4/5 match-up, though, as they've won every series there (which have gone a minimum of six games each time over that span)...but I'm skeptical of the next big step because, as a fan for 20 years now, I've yet to see it.
Don't get me wrong, I hope this is the year. But right now, if the season ended today, we're set for a repeat performance of what we've experienced pretty much every season the last decade - the Jazz have a good shot in the first round and absolutely zero shot in the second. Frankly, I'm hoping the Jazz drop below 5th just to shake things up and give us something new because as is, I think the Jazz could take Portland in seven and would then get absolutely wrecked by the Warriors again.
We are only 2 years into making the playoffs since trying to rebuild and were tanking. We also are far above expectations from what was expected when our top offensive player Hayward left. Last year we made the playoffs with a rookie leading the way and upset a very good OKC team with veteran stars. We also have not been healthy for the playoffs the last 2 years. Hopefully we can be this year. But yes, we need another good player or 2 to take another step forward. As far as before then goes, who cares it was a different team, different coach, and different GM. Its not really related much to what we are doing right now. Even just with natural progression and relatively the same roster we can get much better and be more competitive. Mitchell is far from his peak, he is very young still.
Realistically no one is beating GS this year. If they stay together its unlikely anyone can compete with them until they break up. The most a team can do is try and be a top 3 or 4 seed and hope for the best each year. It takes some good luck to win it all, especially if you are not a big market team.