Boozer KFAN rumor

[mfree]

I keep seeing the suggestion that Orlando add the TPE to the deal to make the salaries match.... I thought you could not combine a TPE with other players. I thought you could only use it to add a player that fits within the TPE (ie. salary lower than the TPE).

Am I mistaken?

 

[NUMBERICA]

I wonder if this Gay news strikes everyone following the NBA the same way as when AK's gay max was announced.

 

[UGLI baby]

I keep seeing the suggestion that Orlando add the TPE to the deal to make the salaries match.... I thought you could not combine a TPE with other players. I thought you could only use it to add a player that fits within the TPE (ie. salary lower than the TPE).

Am I mistaken?

This is my question also.

I have the same understanding of the TPE, but I think Hollinger is the one who proposed this so maybe he knows something we dont.

Paging Kenwood, NBAnerd, or billyshelby to the thread, please.

 

[vslice02]

I wonder if this Gay news strikes everyone following the NBA the same way as when AK's gay max was announced.

I'm sure people here will say "I was against it from the beginning!" but at the time I thought it was fine and that seemed to be the general sentiment around the league.

Considering Kirilenko barely missed any time his first 3 years, was continueing to improve his offensive game and seemed to be one of those rare all-stars who played extremely hard and could influence the game without having to take 15-20 shots, his ceiling looked to be off the charts at the time.

 

[NAOS]

I'm sure people here will say "I was against it from the beginning!" but at the time I thought it was fine and that seemed to be the general sentiment around the league.

Considering Kirilenko barely missed any time his first 3 years, was continueing to improve his offensive game and seemed to be one of those rare all-stars who played extremely hard and could influence the game without having to take 15-20 shots, his ceiling looked to be off the charts at the time.

I agree.

 

[billyshelby]

This is my question also.

I have the same understanding of the TPE, but I think Hollinger is the one who proposed this so maybe he knows something we dont.

Paging Kenwood, NBAnerd, or billyshelby to the thread, please.

I honestly don't know and I tried to ask that very question in the chat. I'm near certain that this deal wouldn't be 'combining' the TPE with the players to work. My guess is it has something to do with Booze becoming a Base Year Compensation player in the transaction. If he signed for 14 in year one, for example, he becomes a BYC at 7, and thus Hedo's 6.9 TPE works to acquire Boozer. I'm still not sure how the Jazz then acquire their players in trades unless they use their own TPE's (Harpring's covers one, we also have TPE's for Brewer and Maynor.) But I'm just speculating. There is probably a much simpler explanation.

Edit: (I might be wrong about this) If Booze signed a MAX deal starting at 16 plus, he becomes a Base Year Player. Using rough numbers, that means he's an 8 million dollar trade chip. So I don't think the Jazz could even take back more than 10 million in salaries if it wanted to. Thus, Gortat and Bass might not even work under a strict S&T. Same with Gortat and Pietrus. However, the Jazz could make almost any deal work if they broke it into pieces. They do a Gortat (or Gortat/Anderson) for Boozer straight up. After that deal is consummated, Orlando agrees to allow the Jazz to acquire any player they want using their own TPE's. So in a "second" deal, the Jazz would acquire Pietrus or Bass. I still think Hollinger is misinformed about the TPE, but he would know better than me.

 

[hoopsfan2744]

https://bit.ly/cS30mb

The Magic are claiming the rumor Boozer to Orlando has no legs, I found it at realgm.com incase the link doesn't work

 

[7StraightIsGreat]

That article states that the agent for Brandon Bass is saying the Magic aren't interested in Boozer. It says nothing directly from the Magic.

Considering an agent is denying the rumor, that makes it all the more plausible in my eyes. Most agents lie, and I seriously doubt the Magic front office is keeping Brandon Bass' agent in the loop of all their offseason discussions.......

 

[TheMulletMutilator]

That article states that the agent for Brandon Bass is saying the Magic aren't interested in Boozer. It says nothing directly from the Magic.

Considering an agent is denying the rumor, that makes it all the more plausible in my eyes. Most agents lie, and I seriously doubt the Magic front office is keeping Brandon Bass' agent in the loop of all their offseason discussions.......

Good point. Agents as much as lawyers and a lot of them are lawyers to begin with. I don't see much validity in this statement by a player's agent.

 

[The Thriller]

We also know which teams are overloaded at certain positions. We can surmise what the needs are of certain teams. We know how teams fare financially. We know which players are free agents.

But I guess you're right. Let's wait for all the contracts to be signed before we speculate (did I spell that word correctly? Never really heard it before).

Really a beantown of a post there, Thriller.

I think you received the wrong impression. I have never once suggested we wait for the contracts to be signed before we speculate. I've merely suggested that we wait for Lebron to be signed. Otherwise, I think it's premature speculation. IMO, if we are to speculate we need to have just a little shred of evidence or an idea as to why player x is interested in team y. Instead, we're seeing a bunch of players waiting to see what one player does.

Since this is subjective you're certainly welcome to have a different opinion. This is just my opinion. Until, we know anything more than a bunch of free agents with a bunch of teams with money waiting to see where ONE player goes, I think it's pretty worthless to even begin to guess or speculate where anyone is going. Under normal circumstances right now would be the time to speculate. We'd be able to speculate that Boozer would go to NY because of *insert whatever*. However, every single notable free agent out there is sitting around waiting for Lebron's decision. Have we ever seen a free agency period like this? I sure haven't, not in any sport, ever. I think this adds an element that changes everything.

Again, subjective, we're splitting hairs here, feel free to argue.

 

[vj_74]

Seriously, has anyone here seen Gortat play? The only reason this guy doesn't get minutes is because the magic have the best center in the nba. From what I have seen, the guy will be solid once given the chance. There is a reason dallas offered him a big contract. If we got Gortat and Pietrus/Bass, we would be crazy not to do this trade.

Dwill/Price
Matthews/Miles
Pietrus/Hayward
Millsap/AK
Gortat/Okur

That looks pretty solid to me. We would have 2 good wing defenders in Matthews and Pietrus, and a legit starting center who plays defense.

That starting lineup would contend for the lottery. Apart from Deron all the other guys are role players at best. So you have Deron+4 role players as your starting lineup and think that they could be even better? Boozer was the only surefire offense guy apart from Deron last year. You lose him and get a bunch of role players not known for their offense and you get worse pretty quickly. We will be like the Rockets of last 2 years, good defensively, but ultimately cannot put enough points on the board.

 

[TheMulletMutilator]

You are mistaken. Koufos is going to step and up even usurp Millsap's job and become an allstar.

 

[friendsinmyhead]

I think you received the wrong impression. I have never once suggested we wait for the contracts to be signed before we speculate. I've merely suggested that we wait for Lebron to be signed. Otherwise, I think it's premature speculation. IMO, if we are to speculate we need to have just a little shred of evidence or an idea as to why player x is interested in team y. Instead, we're seeing a bunch of players waiting to see what one player does.

Since this is subjective you're certainly welcome to have a different opinion. This is just my opinion. Until, we know anything more than a bunch of free agents with a bunch of teams with money waiting to see where ONE player goes, I think it's pretty worthless to even begin to guess or speculate where anyone is going. Under normal circumstances right now would be the time to speculate. We'd be able to speculate that Boozer would go to NY because of *insert whatever*. However, every single notable free agent out there is sitting around waiting for Lebron's decision. Have we ever seen a free agency period like this? I sure haven't, not in any sport, ever. I think this adds an element that changes everything.

Again, subjective, we're splitting hairs here, feel free to argue.

Thriller- I think your post came off like a douchey teacher or parent warning the kids that "we need to wait and see" or "It's not time to speculate, instead we should use this time to quietly study". We all understand that we are on a sports forum where speculation, no matter how outlandish, is considered the norm. Your attempts to explain your post are only reinforcing the douchey teacher perception.

 

[PrinceJL]

Are you insane. You would rather have Chandler than Gortat & Pietrus or Bass?

Chandler has way too much risk because of injuries. And he gets paid more this year. Which means we are over the luxury more.

Gortat is better already right now. and adding Pietrus in the deal or Bass just seals it.

Yes, Chandler will be in the running for comeback player of the year. He's only on the books for 1 year (vs 4yr/ 28M) & I think its financially irresponsible taking back contracts that extend past DWill's contract. See how good Chandler was w/ Chris Paul & while healthy. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind Gortat but not if we have to take back additional long contracts. I'm also on the record with saying Gortat is just a more polished version of Fes.

 

[candrew]

Losing one very, very good player and replacing him with two fair-to-decent players is nothing but a losing mentality. For years teams have been trying this and for years they've been ending up worse off.

This is why the sign-and-trade is overrated - especially when it comes to top shelf players. You rarely get equal talent back; but you end up taking back close to or equal salary. This is why I'd rather let Boozer walk and take my chances elsewhere.

 

[friendsinmyhead]

Losing one very, very good player and replacing him with two fair-to-decent players is nothing but a losing mentality. For years teams have been trying this and for years they've been ending up worse off.

This is why the sign-and-trade is overrated - especially when it comes to top shelf players. You rarely get equal talent back; but you end up taking back close to or equal salary. This is why I'd rather let Boozer walk and take my chances elsewhere.

I agree with your point about trading a very good player for two decent players (never works well for team losing a star). I am not in love with taking our chances letting Booze walk. I believe that is exactly what the Jazz would do, let him walk....and nothing else.

 

[PrinceJL]

Losing one very, very good player and replacing him with two fair-to-decent players is nothing but a losing mentality. For years teams have been trying this and for years they've been ending up worse off.

This is why the sign-and-trade is overrated - especially when it comes to top shelf players. You rarely get equal talent back; but you end up taking back close to or equal salary. This is why I'd rather let Boozer walk and take my chances elsewhere.

Agreed, which is why gambling w/ Chandler (1 yr remaining) is a better option because he's more tradable than those 'decent' players.

 

[Harcher]

Agreed, which is why gambling w/ Chandler (1 yr remaining) is a better option because he's more tradable than those 'decent' players.

I think there is a something to be gained by letting Boozer just walk... How did we get Boozer in the first place? As we know, there are three acquisition asset tools:
1. Draft
2. Trades (need tradeable players/things)
3. Cap Space (free agents)

It is not for nothing to let a player go, becuase you are getting some opportunity in cap space to do this. I'm not advocating that this is always/never a good idea, but it is a reality with Boozer. Boozer was an experiment that did not work. Getting chandler is a resonable replacement - to get something back for Boozer. And i think it is reasonable since he is not a long term contract (thus affording cap space in return for Boozer next year, coinciding with cap space for AK) But in this case renting chandler, with the option to buy, is a plan that you'd pay lux tax this year for the rental. So ultimately, I wouldn't do it. I'd pay the lux tax this year to get a player that would benefit for years to come. I don't think Chandler is physically capable of a "years to come" investment.

 

[billyshelby]

Originally Posted by mfree View Post
I keep seeing the suggestion that Orlando add the TPE to the deal to make the salaries match.... I thought you could not combine a TPE with other players. I thought you could only use it to add a player that fits within the TPE (ie. salary lower than the TPE).

Am I mistaken?

This is my question also.

I have the same understanding of the TPE, but I think Hollinger is the one who proposed this so maybe he knows something we dont.

Paging Kenwood, NBAnerd, or billyshelby to the thread, please.

I got these questions answered in Hollinger's chat today. Here's the basic take:

1. Hollinger was wrong about combining the TPE. Can't be done.
2. Booze basically becomes Base Year in a new deal (not guaranteed, but likely)
3. Due to the fine print in the CBA BYC rules, he doesn't have a trade value of half (or roughly 8). It would be approximately 12 million, or his current salary.

Thus, a straight, 2 team S&T with Orlando requires the Jazz to take back approximately 11 million in salary. They would then need to get a 3rd team to eat a contract if they only wanted 2 or 1 guy. For example, they could do an S&T with Orlando to get Gortat and Bass, but would then find a team who wanted Bass and was willing to give up the Cap Space. Presumably, the Jazz and/or the Magic could sweeten the offer to the 3rd team with 2nd round picks, cash, etc. There are countless permutations of this. Alternatively, the Jazz could decide there is 11 million dollars in contracts they want and just do the deal.

 

[Edgewriter]

The problem with premature speculation is that it often ends with a pregnant pause . . .