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Warren or Sanders?

Warren or Sanders?

  • Warren

    Votes: 8 33.3%

  • Sanders

    Votes: 11 45.8%

  • Other

    Votes: 5 20.8%
  • Total voters
    24
AlaskanAssassin said:
I haven't met anyone, not a single person, that has told me they decided not to vote in 2016 because they assumed Trump would lose and now suddenly they are committed to making the effort in 2020. I know some of those people exist, but I just don't think it's as many people as some assume.
Also, a lot of the people that hate the guy and are driven to vote against him live in blue states anyway. More votes in California and NY are not going to win the presidency for the DNC.
My only point was that a moderate, charismatic candidate that can drive out minority voters would be a much better plan for the DNC than relying on Trump hate.
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Well, I decided to vote Stein because I never thought Trump would win, which is the same thing. I hated Hillary but she is many times better than Trump.
 
NPC D4617 said:
And I guess you cant think because more people voted last election than any other year. So you made no point.

Derp.
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My point was that more people will vote in 2020 than 2016. And i see that you just said that in your last post. Arguing with yourself i guess.


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fishonjazz said:
Do you think there were any people who voted 3rd party who wanted anyone but Trump to win who figured he had no chance?
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Of course there are some, but let's put that in perspective. The largest 3rd party voter turnout in almost every state from the 2016 election was from the Libertarian party. How many Libertarian's are going to vote for Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren?

Look back at the election results on Wikipedia for swing states like Florida and Ohio. You could take every non-Libertarian 3rd party vote, give it to Hillary, and Trump would have still won the state. There are a few swing states that had extremely close results in 2016 (Michigan) that would have won if a large percentage of Non-Libertarian 3rd party voters instead voted for Clinton. Are devout Green Party voters going to bail on their party to get Trump out of office? Let's again keep in mind that the Libertarian party is far and away the largest 3rd party. Does the prospect of Bernie Sanders becoming president lead many Libertarians to vote Republican to keep Socialist ideas out of the White House?

Relying on people hating Trump to drive voter turnout is a losing approach. Focus on recapturing the 7% decrease in voter turnout among African-Americans (765,000 votes!). Are Bernie or Warren, White people that are part of the top 1%, going to get those people to get out and vote.............unlikely.
 
Zombie said:
I'd say that healthcare reform is probably the most pressing issue, but there's no reason we couldn't tackle it and student debt at the same time.

Canceling student debt is a no brianer imo. It would create millions of jobs and actually stimulate the economy in a way the Trump tax cuts never could. The more I've become familiar with modern monetary theory the more I've realized Cheney was kind of right when he said "deficits don't matter." The government doesn't need to balance its budget in the way that a household does. In the case of student loan debt the vast majority of it is owed to the US government, we wouldn't even need to disburse any payments to eliminate it.

As for single payer healthcare, we would need to shift the costs currently spent on private insurance and out of pocket costs to a government run program. I'm no economist but I don't understand why every other developed country is capable of having a healthcare system that doesn't drive millions of households into debt and results in better health for their citizens, but the most wealthy country of all time somehow can't.
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I agree that Healthcare should be a top priority for people, and that minor changes can help pay for it. As a Classic Liberal, I've always been very against socializing medicine in any way. However, over the past few years I've changed my stance. I'm a free-market fan, but I don't see a path for this ever being accomplished in the world of Healthcare. Our current system is so bad and so expensive for both individuals and the government that it simply must change (quickly!).

I think you are right that cancelling student debt won't have a direct impact on the debt, but it will have an impact on a large receivable on the Federal Governments balance sheet ($1.5 Trillion). It still seems crazy to me that Liberals want to cancel student loan debt. It seems so anti-progressive since those with student loans (went to college) on average earn more than those who never went to college. My brother-in-law has $250K in student loan debt and now makes outrageous amounts of money. This guy does not need any of his loans forgiven.
 
AlaskanAssassin said:
I agree that Healthcare should be a top priority for people, and that minor changes can help pay for it. As a Classic Liberal, I've always been very against socializing medicine in any way. However, over the past few years I've changed my stance. I'm a free-market fan, but I don't see a path for this ever being accomplished in the world of Healthcare. Our current system is so bad and so expensive for both individuals and the government that it simply must change (quickly!).

I think you are right that cancelling student debt won't have a direct impact on the debt, but it will have an impact on a large receivable on the Federal Governments balance sheet ($1.5 Trillion). It still seems crazy to me that Liberals want to cancel student loan debt. It seems so anti-progressive since those with student loans (went to college) on average earn more than those who never went to college. My brother-in-law has $250K in student loan debt and now makes outrageous amounts of money. This guy does not need any of his loans forgiven.
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I guess it just depends on how it's structured. Warren's plan for example applies only to houses with an annual income under $250,000.
 
AlaskanAssassin said:
Of course there are some, but let's put that in perspective. The largest 3rd party voter turnout in almost every state from the 2016 election was from the Libertarian party. How many Libertarian's are going to vote for Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren?
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The ones who really hate Trump and wanting him gone is priority #1.


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Zombie said:
I guess it just depends on how it's structured. Warren's plan for example applies only to houses with an annual income under $250,000.
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If they did this, would they have to follow up with implementing free college for all? Doesn't seem like you could write off all those loans and then continue to charge tuition at public universities.

Also, maybe I should stop paying extra principal payments on my student loans.........
 
AlaskanAssassin said:
If they did this, would they have to follow up with implementing free college for all? Doesn't seem like you could write off all those loans and then continue to charge tuition at public universities.

Also, maybe I should stop paying extra principal payments on my student loans.........
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Haha yeah, I mean to me it doesn't make a lot of sense to do one without the other.
 
AlaskanAssassin said:
It still seems crazy to me that Liberals want to cancel student loan debt. It seems so anti-progressive since those with student loans (went to college) on average earn more than those who never went to college. My brother-in-law has $250K in student loan debt and now makes outrageous amounts of money. This guy does not need any of his loans forgiven.
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I agree that cancelling all debt seems over-blown. I'm not sure what current interest rates are like, but if we limited undergraduate interest to about 3% (or, say, rate of inflation + 1%), and graduate/professional somewhat higher (2% more), we could make many people's lives easier.

Also, there does need to be reform in debt collection. When people believe themselves to be in compliance with debt-reduction programs, they should be rejected from them at the 90% rate. Something went far too wrong there.
 
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