JazzyFresh
Banned
Its pretty bad when even Democrats voted no. Think about that.
The official "let's impeach Trump" thread
- Thread starter colton
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JazzyFresh
Banned
Where's the part where Schifty stopped the questioning of house Republicans and tampered with the witness?
olden_undercover
Well-Known Member
I'll pick out the parts, in order, that give the appearance of quid pro quo that are causing concern:
Trump: [T]he United States has been very very good to Ukraine. I wouldn't say that it's reciprocal necessarily because things are happening that are not good but the United States has been very very good to Ukraine.
Zelenskyy: ...I'm very grateful to you for that because the United States is doing quite a lot for Ukraine. Much more than the European Union especially when we are talking about sanctions against the Russian Federation. I would also like to thank you for your great support in the area of defense. We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes.
Trump: I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike... I guess you have one of your wealthy people... The server, they say Ukraine has it. (this is in reference to a conspiracy theory held by Trump that the DNC server-- which he erroneously believes has something to do with a malware company based in CA named Crowdstrike-- was taken offline and physically relocated to Ukraine; goes on to assert the importance of Zelenskyy assisting with this investigation)
Zelenskyy: Yes it is very important for me and everything that you just mentioned earlier. For me as a President, it is very important and we are open for any future cooperation. We are ready to open a new page on cooperation in relations between the United States and Ukraine.
Can you see it now?
1) Trump says we do a lot for Ukraine, and they don't reciprocate
2) Zelenskyy says they are grateful for the help, and want it to continue-- Ukraine in fact wants to purchase more Javelins, in addition to continue receiving aid
3) Trump, without skipping a beat, says, 'I want you to do us a favor though'-- a clear implication that what he is about to ask of Zelenskyy is a condition to ongoing assistance from the US
If you don't see that, I can only assume you're either doing it willfully or you genuinely don't believe being coercive/using quid pro quo as a negotiation tactic with other nations is unethical or should be beneath the President of our country. I kinda think that's where you and NPC, etc. are with this, which is totally your prerogative, and I respect you, even if I don't agree with you.
Lastly, this transcript is NOT VERBATIM, and its accuracy/completeness is very much in question; here are just a couple of articles for reference, if you care to read about it:
- "Although he refers to the document he released as a transcript, it is a summary, not a verbatim recitation of the conversation — and we learned this week that it appears to be missing some alarming details of Trump’s conversation. The summary was circulated and then marked up by those listening to the call. One person who listened to the call as it occurred was the witness Trump was so fired up about this week, Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman, a National Security Council staffer who focuses on Ukraine. Vindman testified that when he saw the summary, he noted two key omissions: one, a reference by Zelensky to Burisma, and two, a reference by Trump to recordings of Joe Biden discussing Ukraine corruption. Vindman further testified that when he asked that the summary be corrected, his request was denied. Leaving out this information suggests that some member of the White House team understood the troubling nature of those references and omitted them, even after the omissions were raised." (https://www.washingtonpost.com/outl...hat-we-read-transcript-are-just-sleight-hand/)
- "[T]he memo itself leaves no doubt that it is not an 'exact transcript.' It is the 'notes and recollections,' it said, of staff 'assigned to listen and memorialize the conversation.' Here’s the full 'caution' note that appears at the bottom of the first page of the White House’s memo on the phone call: Memo of July 25 Trump-Zelensky phone call: CAUTION: A Memorandum of a Telephone Conversation (TELCON) is not a verbatim transcript of a discussion. The text in this document records the notes and recollections of Situation Room Duty Officers and NSC policy staff assigned to listen and memorialize the conversation in written form as the conversation takes place. A number of factors can affect the accuracy of the record, including poor telecommunications connections and variations in accent and/or interpretation. The word 'inaudible' is used to indicate portions of a conversation that the notetaker was unable to hear." (https://www.factcheck.org/2019/10/trumps-inaccurate-claims-about-his-perfect-call/)
olden_undercover
Well-Known Member
That's not true, if we're talking about the same witness. Schiff allowed Republicans several opportunities to stop trying to get the witness to reveal the identity of the whistleblower, and when they persisted he cut them off. This after the witness had opened his testimony explicitly stating he did not know the identify of the whistleblower, and requesting he not be asked to reveal it.
I'm curious what the story is about him tampering with the witness, though. Explain-- I'm not being sarcastic.
Ah, the mysteries of human nature. A puzzle wrapped inside a riddle wrapped inside a banana peel.
JazzyFresh
Banned
Your going to impeach on appearance. There is nothing there, nothing where he says he will withhold things if not done.
JazzyFresh
Banned
In another swipe at Schiff, Nunes said his Democratic counterpart is "very good at coaching witnesses." He added that Schiff has "met" the whistleblower, although it has only been reported the whistleblower met with a House Intelligence Committee aide seeking guidance before filing a complaint, and Schiff knew about it but never informed his GOP colleagues.
The whistleblower does not exist. The whistleblower who's identify is being withhelds lawyer incriminated himself by saying he's parting in a coup against the President. We have the transcript. There is nothing more than what you describe as "appearance". There is no quid pro quo in that call. None
JazzyFresh
Banned
There's is absolutely no hiding the fact that the whistleblowers is being represented by a guy who called for treason. A guy that promised to rebel and overthrow an elected official.
We have that in 100% writing. There are no questions or appearances about it.
We have that in 100% writing. There are no questions or appearances about it.
It might be a big deal. That doesn't mean the WB had any power. As for the "coup", that could mean impeachment or Trump being undercut by his own staff. Either way, the WB would not have any effect on that any more.
If you can come up with a reason why it is relevant, we can discuss it.
JazzyFresh
Banned
Its an admission that a lot of us are right in our assessment. Having a guy openly call for treason represent some no name whistleblower is no laughing matter. Its extremely serious no matter how much you want to say it's not a big deal. Maybe it's not to you, but to the voters and supporters this 100% reaffirms that this is indeed a witch hunt. There is no denying it.
LOL, we don't have a transcript. We have a summary written as a transcript, the type of thing that, if it came from the Clintons, you in all your fair-mindedness would say is worthless. Naturally, the even-handed person that you are, you believe in the one from Trump.
It's the part where Trump asks for the personal favor.
Saying that the guy is openly calling for treason 1) is a misrepresentation of the word "treason" even is the hashtag is interpreted literally, and 2) is interpreting a hash tag as a literal word.
I mean, continue to repeat this lie if you want. I just wanted to let you know we recognize the lie.
JazzyFresh
Banned
You do know what a coup is right. It is overthrowing the government. He said it as plain as day dude. You are the one lying it's it's there in his tweet.
Lol wtf is is interpreting a hashtag as a literal word mean? Lmfao that hilarious. Coup is a word. Lol.
JazzyFresh
Banned
#spaghetti
It still means spaghetti. Lol wow.
It still means spaghetti. Lol wow.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
The chief of staff admitting to using congressionally passed funding to Ukraine in order to strong-arm Ukraine into digging dirt on Trump’s political opponent is impeachable.
So again why are we focusing on the whistleblower? This is what the chief of staff said just a few weeks ago:
Folks who want to focus on the whistleblower and his lawyer are either pathetically poorly informed or are purposely making bad faith arguments because they know that Trump is guilty as hell.
JazzyFresh
Banned
We do have the transcript. The fact that you say we don't shows how poorly informed you are. And Thriller spare me. Your idiocy on Tulsi is the dumbest thing I've read on this forum. If you believe that you will believe anything. You calling other people out on stupidity is extremely ironic.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
I wish the trumpers on here would just admit this rather than come up with faux policy reasons (that even they don’t know or understand) for preferring trump over Democrats.
Zombie
Well-Known Member
We literally don't. This is at the top of the call record we have:
CAUTION: A Memorandum of a Telephone Conversation (TELCON) is not a verbatim transcript of a discussion.