The official "let's impeach Trump" thread

[The Thriller]

You've fixed your list somewhat by leaving some of your previous suppositions off, but the motivation for the second point is not as clear as you're suggesting, there is no problem asking for a favor that benefits our country, the use of "scheme" is meant to incite an opinion that he was up to something nefarious, it is not at all clear that smearing an opponent was his motivation, etc. You are so ingrained in many of your suppositions that you see them as facts. It's clear that we don't see eye to eye on very much of this at all.

I didn’t fix them, I just simplified the main points to hopefully spark a simple discussion between us. Do you have facts to dispute them or are you just going to bitch? Are you going to address any of those bullet points?

But asking ukraine to announce publicly an investigation of his political rival doesn’t benefit our country. Most investigations are done in secret. So why did he care so much about a public announcement?

"I said that resumption of U.S. aid would likely not occur until Ukraine provided the public anti-corruption statement that we had been discussing for many weeks," Sondland writes, noting that he now recalls a Sept. 1 meeting in which he told that to an aide to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy

And

(CNN)The top US diplomat in Ukraine expressed serious misgivings about foreign policy moves being tied to political motives, calling a potential quid pro quo over military assistance to Ukraine "crazy" and suggested he would quit if that assistance was not released, according to text messages released by the House Foreign Affairs, Intelligence and Oversight Committees on Thursday night.

Those texts -- given to the committees by former US Special Representative for Ukraine Kurt Volker as part of his deposition Thursday -- show Ambassador William "Bill" Taylor, the charge d'affaires at the US Embassy in Kiev, repeatedly questioning the decision to stall hundreds of millions of dollars in military aid to Ukraine as a potential quid pro quo and raising concerns about the impact on broader regional policy.

"The message to the Ukrainians (and Russians) we send with the decision on security assistance is key. With the hold, we have already shaken their faith in us. Thus my nightmare scenario," Taylor wrote on September 9. Russia has made repeated illegal incursions into Ukraine.
"As I said on the phone, I think it's crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign," he added.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/04/politics/bill-taylor-volker-texts/index.html

Cutting anti-corruption funding doesn’t benefit our country. Nor does it support his claims that he’s concerned with corruption. Why would you seek cuts to anti-corruption programs if you want to combat corruption? Isn’t that like eating pizza and hamburgers while decreasing activity everyday while claiming to be concerned about losing weight?

The Trump administration has sought repeatedly to cut foreign aid programs tasked with combating corruption in Ukraine and elsewhere overseas, White House budget documents show, despite recent claims from President Trump and his administration that they have been singularly concerned with fighting corruption in Ukraine.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-p...ams-aimed-fighting-corruption-ukraine-abroad/

When asked if he could remember a time he made a similar request to “investigate corruption”, Donald couldn't even name one. As alway, I have the receipts.



Lastly, would a president concerned about corruption, allow this?

Attorney General Bill Barr has booked a 200-person holiday party, complete with a four-hour open bar and buffet, at the Trump International Hotel in Washington, D.C., for Dec. 8 -- and though he's using his own money, the move is raising ethics concerns among some observers.

The Barr "Family Holiday Party" is expected to generate roughly $30,000 in revenue for the hotel, at a rate of some $135 per person plus $4,500 to rent the hotel's Presidential Ballroom, according to The Washington Post. The Post first reported on the arrangement on Tuesday.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/barr-books-31g-holiday-party-at-trump-hotel-stoking-ethics-concerns

Or this?

President Trump and the U.S. Air Force are trying to tamp down questions about conflicts of interest that erupted over stays by Air Force personnel at Trump's luxury golf resort in Turnberry, Scotland.

https://www.npr.org/2019/09/09/7590...rce-and-congress-review-stays-at-trump-resort

or this?

Though he stepped away from day-to-day operations of his businesses, Trump retains ownership in companies that do business with foreign diplomats, state-controlled companies and state-owned television channels. He selected his own Trump National Doral golf resort in Miami to be the site of next year’s Group of Seven summit, which the U.S. is hosting, before bending to public criticism... The Trump International Hotel Washington, D.C. gets business from foreign governments and their representatives, and it’s housed in a building that Trump’s company leases from the U.S. government

https://fortune.com/2019/10/23/trump-emoluments-clause-constitution/

if Trump cared would much about corruption, why would he surround himself with so many corrupt people? How many campaign managers, aides, personal friends, and cabinet members are now serving prison terms?

Trump cares as much about limiting corruption as he does about staying in shape.

 

[Release the Kraken]

Executive Privilege, Executive Privilege, Executive Privilege..... Some folks feel empowered when a person they support breaks all the rules, conceals all the facts, operates with absolute impunity and gets away with it. Instead of acknowledging a moral deficit they regale in the "ineptitude" of the opposition's ability to set a snare that will hold. Personally, given the fact that I value integrity over power by association, I would feel bitterly betrayed and change my alliance if it was someone I had supported.

What has become of the GOP, the party of Lincoln and Eisenhauer? Even Richard Nixon had the integrity to concede and walk away after a DNC break-in. Putin had that accomplished (digitally) for Trump even before he won his first term.

Trump has no conscience and no compunctions - the minute the Mueller investigation concluded he had Giulliani and his associates (Lev Parnas) collecting hush, hush foreign campaign funds, and initiating Trump's shakedown scheme in Ukraine. Bolton said I want nothing to do with this "drug deal" which is somewhat ironic only because the person I most associate with Trump is Pablo Escobar. It's also ironic to me that Trump chose Alan Dershowitz and Ken Starr to represent him, the biggest part of the Jeffrey Epstein Defense Team. Parnas is chirping only because he knows he's being left out to dry and doesn't want to suffer the same fate in a Federal facility as Epstein. When your sustained silence is paramount, you're obviously more valuable dead than alive unless you chirp. Parnas said that Barr knew everything, made Trump what he is. So seriously, who do you think had better access to Epstein, Trump or Clinton?

 

[The Thriller]

Trumpers upset at Hunter Biden using his name to promote his career is peak hypocrisy. Why not lead by example? How about making Ivanka, Don JR, and Eric pull themselves up by their own bootstraps?

and as stated before, Hunter could’ve been a serial killer. It still wouldn’t have made Donald’s request, abuse of power, and then obstruction of justice any less impeachable.

 

[One Brow]

Not compared to the amount of delusion it takes to believe that Hunter was being paid for anything other than his father's influence.

Who said there was definitely something else involved? Most I recall are people saying these things are unpredictable, and could happen for any number of reasons.

 

[One Brow]

I came to see how many minds were changed by this thread. Still standing at zero???? Great. Sorry, just being a smart A.

Jazzta has moved his position somewhat.

 

[The Thriller]

I came to see how many minds were changed by this thread. Still standing at zero???? Great. Sorry, just being a smart A.

Was the sole purpose of this thread to convince the few on here who were either undecided on Trump or pro Trump to support impeachment? For those of us following impeachment, this has been incredibly informative. There has been value in sharing the facts about the case. It has been validating to read people like @silesian or @colton Post their feelings about impeachment. I think conservatives joining together with moderates and liberals against Trump actually shows how bi-partisan impeachment is for the broader majority of people. Just because it doesn’t manifest itself in Congress or on the Fox News/Breitbart silos you live in doesn’t mean that impeachment hasn’t been bi-partisan.

Remember, Republicans lost the House because a lot of conservatives joined to vote for Democrats. Most of the country supports impeachment and removal. Most Republicans believe there should be witnesses. How Republican Senators are acting is vastly different than what their own party let alone the country, want.

 

[The Thriller]

Are we surprised that people like this still think Trump is innocent and the Clintons are behind every ill in the world?

 

[fishonjazz]

So let's all agree that Hunter Biden was employed by Burisma under that pretense, for the sake of dialog. It seems perfectly plausible, honestly. A lot of us think pro-Trump folks are falling for some twisty words on the part of Trump & Co., though: That he was on some noble quest to bring down corruption by proving Hunter Biden was employed by Burisma for political purposes, and THAT was his primary and only motivation. There is ample evidence, including statements by witnesses, that there was never a sincere attempt to get Ukraine to actually conduct an investigation at all-- Trump just wanted Ukraine to ANNOUNCE an investigation. And if you consider that, and then ask yourself what Trump's motive could have possibly been, you only land in one place: He wanted to damage Biden politically. If you can present a compelling reason why the president of the United States should otherwise personally involve himself in this sort of issue, to the extent he bypassed regular government channels and used his own personal attorney and cronies to clandestinely liaise between himself and the Ukrainian government, please do so. That's the basis of this entire investigation.

Helluva post
I look forward to the response

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[fishonjazz]

There's certainly a middle ground here, which is that they hired him for his name, to add a veneer of credibility to their struggling brand.

Of course that doesn't mean that Joe Biden himself had anything to do with it, and no evidence suggests he did.

That said, I don't think anyone should be trading on the name of their politician parents. It would be really cool if that standard was universal, and the fact that Trump has is own family working in his white house and on his campaign while they do business overseas really blows the whole narrative of Trump being an anti corruption crusader into smithereens.

Another one

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[The Thriller]

Adam Schiff finished today strong:

 

[The Thriller]

Oof



Apparently she was reading right winger Kim Strassel’s book during impeachment and doing interviews on Fox News. Thank god she loves this country more than Vindman...


are we supposed to act surprised when these people remain in their same preconceived notions on Donald’s innocence?

 

[The Thriller]

This is what any innocent president who’s concerned with corruption would do. Right?

 

[Zombie]

This is what any innocent president who’s concerned with corruption would do. Right?

Jury tampering. Probably an impeachable offense all on its own.

Jesus christ this country is ****ed.

 

[The Thriller]

Those of you with twitter should see our president’s pinned tweet. What’s it going to take for you all to recognize how insane he is?

 

[colton]

This is what any innocent president who’s concerned with corruption would do. Right?

I literally just logged on to post the same thing. It disgusts me.

 

[colton]

Check out @tedlieu’s Tweet:

 

[Political Jazz Fan]

I believe Mark Meadows over any of you arm chair politicians. Sorry if that hurts your feelings.

 

[Political Jazz Fan]

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

And I understand that. I have ALWAYS understood that. Long ago, a few years ago now, you suggested I start a thread to examine the differences between how liberals see the world, and how conservatives see the world. Which I did, but I forget how the conversation went. Not far, as I recall.

But, my point is I have close friends, highly intelligent friends, who support Trump. My closest friend is a conservative. Because he believes I am an intelligent man, he is absolutely incredulous that I feel the way I do. It's like "but you're a real smart guy; I don't get it". (In so many words, not an exact quote, but that was the gist of how he reacted when I first told him Trump was a demagogue). I could say the very same thing to him. "My dear friend, you are an intelligent and thoughtful man. How can you support Trump?" Without actually spelling it out, we simply decided to avoid politics, and stick to our shared interests. One thing I learned is that our differences are not rooted in intelligence, or education. We're both highly educated.

I believe it comes down to how people view the world. And we need to examine that basic fact very closely, and understand how we have let it get to such a dire state of extreme divisiveness.

I also believe, and have said as much many times in the Trump threads, that, sooner or later this impasse has got to end. But I'm not optimistic in the short term. Or the long term at the moment.

Any time I mention Trump at all, my wife takes it as her cue to bring up Hillary, who she hates. So I am in the thick of it where our partisan "civil war" is concerned. So, I take this as a test for me. I must be tolerant. I must understand we are all citizens of the same nation. I am married to someone who does not understand what all the Trump hate is all about. This has got to be a test; I hope I pass. Love trumps hate.

You may not realize it, because I make clear how I feel about Trump, but I spend a great deal of time trying to fathom these differences. I have also suggested to you, a few times, that we are dealing with competing narratives. And I do believe they both cannot be true. I think the narrative I subscribe to is the one where truth lies. I think eventually that will be born out. I expect you to disagree and subscribe to the president's narrative. To the narrative presented by Fox. I don't mean to make your position simplistic when I say that. I know you have said you don't like some of Trump's personal qualities.

I appreciate your recognition that an intelligent and moral person can disagree with you. Many on your side do not share that belief. Ever since we met on this forum I have liked and respected you. Our political disagreements are undoubtedly large but I appreciate the way you handle yourself. I believe that I can understand the thinking of most liberals, I just disagree with it. I have often tried to explain why. I'm not sure whether you are saying that you can understand conservative thinking, or that their logic escapes you.

Also, like you, I am not optimistic that these two sides will come to an understanding in either the short or the long term. The divide is enormous, and getting larger.

 

[Harambe]

“What is required for removal of the president?” Napolitano asked. “A demonstration of presidential commission of high crimes and misdemeanors, of which in Trump’s case the evidence is ample and uncontradicted.”