Will Rudy get the D-Will Treatment?

[Handlogten's Heros]

The day we traded D-Will I was sad. Loved watching him... was my favorite player on that team, but I understood. It was universally applauded and "set us up" for the future. There are a few things happening that may end up with Rudy getting the D-Will treatment. I love the guy... I hope he comes back to this tournament thing with a renewed fire and we see the absolute dominant force defensively that we have known...

But here is my concern... Rudy's Defensive RPM the last few years...

2016 - 6.02
2017 - 5.06
2018 - 4.35
2019 - 3.23

There is a lot to this number but I think we have all kind of felt his effect slip a bit... whether it is because he isn't as interested in defense, the fact that the rules and game has shifted towards offense, that there are more shooting bigs, or some other reason … IDK but our defense seems to be toothless this year and seemed to slip a bit over the last couple years. I think we may have seen Rudy's best defensive years.

There is a confluence of events that have me worried:

1- He is up for a new deal and the type of max money we can give him ranges quite a bit. We need to get him for less than megamax and hopefully slightly less than max... but

2- DM is also up for a new deal and will get the 5 year max no questions asked. Which would make him the highest paid player on the team if Rudy gave a discount... Given their recent issues I'm not sure that is gonna happen. I think there is friction there... watched them on court all year and the communication had a lot of bad body language.

3- This year is shortened and depending on if fans are able to attend next year may be shortened too... those are the only two years he is currently under contract... two potentially weird seasons.

4- We are going to have some potential issues financially... Millers are doing just fine I'm sure but I'm guessing the purse may not be as easy to get into as it was last summer.

5- DL learned from KOC... DL was burned by Hayward... somewhere KOC is in the basement of the Vivint dressed as Darth Sidous and DL gonna go visit him... when he does will DL turn and move Rudy.

I'm not saying its the right thing... I would only do it if I got a strong return, which may not be there... I'm just saying I think it is on the table and I will no longer be shocked if it happens.

 

[GVC]

1st in the league in drpm in each of those seasons, and 9th in the league in wins (by total rpm) last year.

Dude's still easily the best player on the team. Jazz are better off moving other players, including Donovan, if money is an issue.

 

[NAOS]

It’ll be interesting to see what their chemistry is like. Maybe Disney world will bring them closer in spirit.

 

[JimLes]

Maybe Disney world will bring them closer in spirit.

Friendship is magic.

 

[kabenac]

It’ll be interesting to see what their chemistry is like. Maybe Disney world will bring them closer in spirit.

I just imagined Rudy walking through the park with Donovan on his shoulders (Mitchell's wearing a Mickey ears hat and is eating a $20 ice cream cone).

When Mitchell says something Rudy doesn't like Rudy walks underneath a low-hanging sign and it smacks Mitchell in the face, to which Rudy responds, "Sorry!"

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

1st in the league in drpm in each of those seasons, and 9th in the league in wins (by total rpm) last year.

Dude's still easily the best player on the team. Jazz are better off moving other players, including Donovan, if money is an issue.

I should have mentioned he was still first. I just think overall he has less impact... still very impactful. Not sure if it is just the overall direction of the league... some Rudy slowing down... or some of everything.

The other point is valid... I think Rudy gets you to 50 wins and is more impactful now... but he presents some matchup issues and maybe some limitations if we want to build a true title contender. Moving him almost certainly makes us worse short term... but part of me wonders if you can mimic his overall impact or get 80% of it with another option. Our defensive funneling tactic works well in many scenarios, but teams that spread us out can really take the edge off and then the perimeter guys seem to struggle even more.

It also isn't about right now... its about the next 5 years. Its also what DM means to the community and just the perception of our team... he's an outspoken charismatic young man. Rudy has his own charm but it is more silent leadership and not sure he has the same attraction DM does.

Not saying we have to choose between the two... I'm saying I see a storm coming where management thinks it could make sense to move on. It really depends on what you can get. We shall see, but I see it brewing and this strange tournament may bring them together or show that the seams are splitting a bit.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

No matter what happens I will always love and support the dude... just like I did with D-Will... never understood the hate he got. There was clear frustration and he flew off the handle a bit, but Sloan was very set in his ways too and not the most cuddly dude.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

The Jazz would probably trade Rudy under two scenarios:

1) The parties are at an impasse on his next extension. Rudy wants something close to supermax and the Jazz would move him rather than overpay him from their perspective. This would be comparable to what happened with Kemba Walker and Boogie Cousins.

2) The Jazz think there is a high probability that Gobert leaves in a year to join another team, say Dallas, so he can get set up by Luka Doncic.

When KOC traded DWill to the Nets, he did it because he didn't want to lose his star player for nothing--the way that Toronto had recently lost Chris Bosh and Phoenix had lost Amare Stoudemire. He also did it because he didn't want to give DWill a $100M max extension. The rift with Jerry Sloan gave the team PR cover to make a move they were probably already resigned to making.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

The Jazz would probably trade Rudy under two scenarios:

1) The parties are at an impasse on his next extension. Rudy wants something close to supermax and the Jazz would move him rather than overpay him from their perspective. This would be comparable to what happened with Kemba Walker and Boogie Cousins.

2) The Jazz think there is a high probability that Gobert leaves in a year to join another team, say Dallas, so he can get set up by Luka Doncic.

When KOC traded DWill to the Nets, he did it because he didn't want to lose his star player for nothing--the way that Toronto had recently lost Chris Bosh and Phoenix had lost Amare Stoudemire. He also did it because he didn't want to give DWill a $100M max extension. The rift with Jerry Sloan gave the team PR cover to make a move they were probably already resigned to making.

Right... and the scenario is brewing imo… Will the Jazz just pay Rudy? He likely won't want to take a cut if DM is getting full max. The purse strings might be getting tight. If they can't agree I think they move him IF they got a decent return. If it was mediocre you just roll the dice and hopefully pivot with the cap room you might clear.

I just think there is some real smoke here.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Not having Bojan will help us answer some questions in a way... He's the weakest defender in the starting lineup, so if our defense looks similar to years past then its probably not a Rudy or some change in the way the game is played issue. The offense needs to hold up though and I think Bojan's absence will be felt there.

If Rudy comes back with the right attitude and DM throws him a pass or two then I could see us righting the ship and figuring things out. I'm just worried they grow further apart and now is a terrible time for that.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I would just like to mention that what the Jazz got in the trade ultimately didn't amount to much. Favors in my mind remains more of a 'what if?' than a great player and he's really the only thing that panned out. At all.

I guess trading Deron gave us all this flexibility to... uhh... be an afterthought for 5-6 years.

If the Jazz don't know how to use assets and can't utilize the flexibility then it is pointless to trade established players for them.

But I also understand the point of this thread. My stance is that if one or both of him and Donovan can't patch their **** up then they are ****ing babies. This year (ha) and next are the Jazz's chance to do something.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I would just like to mention that what the Jazz got in the trade ultimately didn't amount to much. Favors in my mind remains more of a 'what if?' than a great player and he's really the only thing that panned out. At all.

I guess trading Deron gave us all this flexibility to... uhh... be an afterthought for 5-6 years.

If the Jazz don't know how to use assets and can't utilize the flexibility then it is pointless to trade established players for them.

But I also understand the point of this thread. My stance is that if one or both of him and Donovan can't patch their **** up then they are ****ing babies. This year (ha) and next are the Jazz's chance to do something.

Agree... that trade is still ultimately seen as "so smart" even though it became meh... and really because Deron fell off a cliff and got paid.

I will say had we done a full pivot then we probably could have come out much better and we didn't have anyone on the roster as good as DM... so it could come out differently I guess.

We are in a bad spot... not like Sacramento Kings or New York Knicks bad but it will be tough to build given the cap schematics and we may be pushed a different direction soon.