We should take a trip down the Furguson thread lane.
I’ll bump it now. Enjoy!
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I’ll bump it now. Enjoy!
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Tough Day To Be In Law Enforcement
- Thread starter JazzGal
- Start date
Decent article from 538 showing there is evidence that when police escalate it leads to more violence.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/feature...es-why-departments-respond-with-force-anyway/
I'm fairly convinced that a large portion of the protesters violence is started by police. It's hard to tell though. There had definitely been some bad individuals doing stuff. Although I'm not sure how many were actually a part of this protest.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/feature...es-why-departments-respond-with-force-anyway/
I'm fairly convinced that a large portion of the protesters violence is started by police. It's hard to tell though. There had definitely been some bad individuals doing stuff. Although I'm not sure how many were actually a part of this protest.
So I have some time to address this properly now.
First, I'm not watching videos only of what one side has to say. Not sure how you think you know what videos I've watched. You don't, and you're wrong.
Second, you think I'm being "fed" some kind of propaganda? Yes, of course I am. We all are. I've been fed propaganda from both sides (there are actually more than two sides, but I don't want to confuse you, so we'll pretend there are just two sides).
Third, you're making a completely meaningless point. Of course when I watch videos of police brutalizing civilians those videos are hand picked to demonstrate police brutalizing civilians. Do you think you informed me of something that I wasn't aware of? You needed to explain to me the subject of the videos I watched? When I click on a video that says it shows police brutalizing civilians I expect to see a video of police brutalizing civilians. No one is tricking me. I don't need you to explain that situation to me. If you wanted to make a valid point you might have suggested those videos weren't real (they are real) or that I was missing crucial context, such as the person who is kneeling with their hands behind their head had just stomped on puppies or murdered the cops kid or something. You didn't try to make that point though. Instead you suggested I was confused about what I watched. I wasn't. I watched dozens of incidents where the officers in the videos need to be arrested and convicted of serious crimes. That's what I saw.
Were there civilians committing crimes? Yes. And if identified I am sure they will be arrested and tried for their crimes. There's the difference. Do you see it?
Do cops save lives? Yes they do. Do we need a militarized police force that abuses people regularly in order to have first responders who save lives? No, we don't. The role of the police could be completely redefined so that the abusing people and killing innocent people was no longer part of the job description. That's what I'm advocating for.
Your thinking is what is ludicrous.
In human society we have a social contract. We all agree to behave according to a certain standard in order that we can all live together peacefully. When the police murder civilians and the repercussions never come then that social contract has been violated. If there is no social contract then there are no rules that say "looting is bad." When a community has had that contract repeatedly violated against them it is reasonable to expect that they will stop honoring their side of the contract as well. This concept has been expressed very well with the slogan "no justice, no peace."
You, and archie want to focus on the second violation of the social contract. I want to focus on the original violation.
In short, you're looking at the wrong thing, I'm looking at the right thing, but you wanted to explain to me about the second thing, like I didn't see it or I didn't understand it. How ****ing stupid are you that you aren't seeing the original problem? How ****ing ignorant are you that you think you're being clever pointing out the symptom to me, while you are blind to the cause?
You want to tell me I'm not so foolish as to be tricked by these actual videos of police brutality? How foolish must you be? How ignorant are you?
Next time you want to explain things to me you better be prepared better, because you look like an *** on this one.
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The Thriller
Well-Known Member
several posters in just the last few pages have ridiculed other posters and have defended the police. Hell, they’ve been shielded by our culture and their associations for far too long. Their profession is long overdue for scrutiny. The police deserve zero defending. At this point, defending the police is for maintaining the status quo which is creating the inequities that we currently see. My post was tongue and cheek but it’s not hard to recognize that bringing up the few cases of looting while a worldwide protest is occurring nearly daily, is merely An attempt to distract from actually resolving racial inequity and police brutality.
There are lots of levels of de-funding. Many talks are about greatly reducing police funding but not disbanding. Money will be spent on other services that benefit the community. Social workers will respond to mental health instead of police for example.
I think specialization of tasks makes more sense. We would still have investigators and other people to do specific tasks but more appropriate training and oversight. Plus a lot more transparency. We would have traffic people but that's all they do. If there is something else they see they can call in someone more trained to deal with it.
I think police and prisons need a huge reduction regardless. That money could be spent in far better and more effective ways. Non violent offenders shouldn't be sent to prison. Police shouldn't have military weapons and gear. There should be far more good quality well paid social workers then police. Mental health care should be increased.
I would like to think we can fix the problems with police in general and our entire criminal justice system. But I also can see the argument for starting over with it.
I would like to think we can fix the problems with police in general and our entire criminal justice system. But I also can see the argument for starting over with it.
Oh decriminalizing drug use would do wonders as well for society and greatly reduce violence, costs to the public, and the bad drugs would be reduced.
Getting Traded
Banned
RM has made some excellent points in his most recent posts.
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
So, being the moron that you are, you can't name one poster who set any of the standards you spoke of? Idiot.
A few cases of looting? There have been literally thousands of cases of looting and businesses destroyed. That's injustice, just like Floyd being murdered is injustice.
You spew so much blinded **** that you literally make things up. You've made up at least 3 things on this page alone that are completely wrong.
Look, dude. I've seen pretty much every poster in this thread call for the accountability of police and have supported the protesters. The only thing the police have been defended for in this thread people doing things wrong against them like murder them, incite violence against them, etc.
Some people are against all injustices and not skewed by an political ideology and bias.
"Standards" though.
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Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
Are you going to give Trevor Noah credit here? Lol
I'm not even going to respond to the rest of that garbage post.
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
Ex-lax will help with that.
JimLes
Well-Known Member
Exactly. Trump and his sock puppets are naturally shouting that evil Democrats want to have no law enforcement of any kind, but that's a huge red herring. The point of defunding and disbanding is to create something new that accomplishes what the current system has failed to do. I don't think anyone can possibly argue that the current policing system has been successful.
There is no need to have all police officers carry guns and especially no need to have armed officers respond to every call. How ridiculous is it that school resource officers carry guns and bulletproof vests? And before anyone brings up school shootings, I'd like to point out how exceedingly rare they are but also what happened last time we had a major school shooting in Florida.
For entirely too long, policing has looked like pacification. Police officers have looked and behaved like an occupying army. Especially in minority areas and neighbourhoods. Probably the most infuriating way in which this manifests itself is the demand for absolute compliance and the lengths the police will go to get it. How often do you have ridiculous chases and police officers discharging weapons because a suspect was "going to get away?" In situations where said suspect might have been unarmed, was not posing an immediate danger to the public, or was not even the person they were looking for? That's okay. If they run, you can shoot. If they try to pass what might have been a fake 20, you can kneel on their neck until they die.
I don't know if these attitudes can be fixed with more training and oversight. I think it needs to be blown up and replaced by something new.
candrew
Well-Known Member
Step 1 is de-militarization. We had this huge military build-up in our police departments courtesy of the Patriot Act in 2002 for fear of an outbreak of domestic terrorism that never really materialized. It's time to admit that was a deeply flawed, knee jerk piece of legislation that has actually made us less free. I'd also argue it attracted the wrong type of people to become cops. Take that money and put it towards vigorous psych evals for incoming candidates.
Step 2 is getting cops out of their patrol cars and into the streets. Seven years ago the police department in Camden, NJ was disbanded (some people are now saying it was defunded which is not really the truth). The new heads of the police department focused on community relations instead of law enforcement and crime went down 32%. I still wouldn't go there at night, lol....but it had the reputation for the most crime riddled city in America not that long ago and that's not nearly the case anymore.
Avery
Well-Known Member
And tax it. You want MJ, fine, you pay a tax like anything else.
I don’t want a junkie peddling speed outside of an elementary, but stop filling up the justice system with non-violent offenders.
fishonjazz
Well-Known Member
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And let me grow my own! It's a ****ing plant for God's sake.
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Avery
Well-Known Member
Exactly. Grow your own if you want just like you can roll your own cigs or make your own brews. You want to sell it to somebody of legal age, you can just like tobacco or alcohol. Just pay the taxes like you normally should and if you sell to someone underage or don't pay taxes, we already have laws for that. No jail, just fine your ***.
Ask Colorado how much their school districts receive off the taxation of marijuana yet Denver somehow isn't a cesspool - imagine that.
AlaskanAssassin
Well-Known Member
If we, as a society, are asking police officers to respond to potentially dangerous situations, where someone may have a gun, I don't think we can ask them to do that without being equipped with a firearm. Just my opinion.
AlaskanAssassin
Well-Known Member
It's astonishing how many people we incarcerate in this country.
Incarcerated citizens as of 2020:
United States - 2,193,798
China - 1,548,498
India - 332,112
Germany - 77,166
Food for thought. China and Indian have a combined population of about 2.8 billion. We have more incarcerated people than those two countries, combined. So the United States, which is roughly 12% the size of those two countries combined, has more people in prison.
Germany has roughly 25% of the population the US does, yet it only has 77K people incarcerated? France has similar figures.
I'm having a hard time coming to terms with these numbers.