Game Thread Aug 03, 2020: Utah Jazz vs Los Angeles Lakers

[Handlogten's Heros]

That’s the emptiest stat line since Al Jefferdad.

He padded it at the end a little, but he was pretty solid imo...

Put it this way... If I was listing the issues last night I would have gotten pretty far down the list before I got to Mike.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I'm also not all that concerned when we lose games so long as we play well (not shooting well happens even when you are playing well). Like the process was mostly good last night.

If we end up playing Denver in a 3/6 matchup I like that better than almost any other matchup.

 

[NAOS]

I'm also not all that concerned when we lose games so long as we play well (not shooting well happens even when you are playing well). Like the process was mostly good last night.

If we end up playing Denver in a 3/6 matchup I like that better than almost any other matchup.

Denver is a foot taller at almost every position. We aren’t showing out very well against taller and more athletic competition. And Denver can apply loads of pressure with dribble penetration. That’s all a bad recipe. We might make it to the 6th game of that series.

 

[The Thriller]

As the announcers were saying last night, they were getting great looks on their shots. Therefore, the game plan is working. These guys just have to start hitting their shots. Going into the playoffs, they were the 2nd best 3-point shooting team in the league so there is potential. We need a true stretch-4 that can also rebound a little. Dare I say, someone like Myles Turner would be perfect.

We are essentially the rockets but without the great athleticism or shooting. We are soft, don’t play defense, and way too obsessed with outscoring our opponents.

Even with Bogie, we’re just a poor man’s rockets team.

I really wish we could have a redo of last off-season. We had an identity back then that could compete with the best. We just needed to tweak things. Instead, we blew things up and I’m unsure how we improve without taking several steps backwards first. Losing favors and Crowder, the toughness that we lack, is just killing us. It makes it hard to watch. We’re not enjoyable watching our 3 guards doing all the shooting and scoring whileRudy has to defend 5 players and grab every rebound.

 

[LoPo]

Did you watch the ****ing game? Dead *** serious. AD got a ton in transition as did their other guys... most of that was with Rudy on the bench. They got lobs when Tony was in the game because Lebron gonna pick that **** apart.

When Rudy was on AD he got jumpers... worst thing he did was let him hit a couple threes... he's a 34% three point shooter and 95% of the teams in the league are going to live with him shooting contested threes. Rudy can get out and guard those, but he has midgets behind him so if he gets beat at all its over.

Rudy went for 16 on 6 shots. AD had 40+ but it wasn't super efficient when Rudy was on him. Its a pretty damn tough ask to have Rudy help on Lebron, guard AD and then fight an additional athletic 7 footer for rebounds. But sure we gave up points in the paint and AD got every ****ing call so Rudy was trash.

Of course I watched the game. I saw that Gobert made some plays here and there. I didn't say he had an awful game. I said he had an average game. He didn't play well, but he also wasn't the reason we lost (poor wide open shooting).

This whole narrative that Gobert is awesome every single game and if our defense struggles it's because he can't do it by himself is completely bogus. I saw Royce O'Neale play excellent defense all night long. I saw Donovan busting it on D. Ingles was playing hard on the defensive end. I'm just tired of hearing this narrative that Gobert is trying on defense and everybody is letting him down. Good teams know how to nullify Gobert. He's still going to have an impact because he's a great defensive player, but he can't take over a game in those situations.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Of course I watched the game. I saw that Gobert made some plays here and there. I didn't say he had an awful game. I said he had an average game. He didn't play well, but he also wasn't the reason we lost (poor wide open shooting).

This whole narrative that Gobert is awesome every single game and if our defense struggles it's because he can't do it by himself is completely bogus. I saw Royce O'Neale play excellent defense all night long. I saw Donovan busting it on D. Ingles was playing hard on the defensive end. I'm just tired of hearing this narrative that Gobert is trying on defense and everybody is letting him down. Good teams know how to nullify Gobert. He's still going to have an impact because he's a great defensive player, but he can't take over a game in those situations.

Not what I said... he isn’t always good on defense. He was last night. In the half court all AD could get better as jumpers... that’s a win.

Let’s talk about his offense... 6/6 - 4/5 from the line... couple assists and some other nice passes that did not become assists. He was good last night and if you think that **** is just average the. That shows how great a standard the guy has set.

 

[LoPo]

Not what I said... he isn’t always good on defense. He was last night. In the half court all AD could get better as jumpers... that’s a win.

Let’s talk about his offense... 6/6 - 4/5 from the line... couple assists and some other nice passes that did not become assists. He was good last night and if you think that **** is just average the. That shows how great a standard the guy has set.

If AD hits a jumper from outside, that's good defense? AD got where he wanted when he wanted. Scoring, rebounding, etc. AD was a beast. Gobert was not. If a PG hit a shot over Conley over and over, we're okay with that? What logic is that?

As for offense, 6-6 doesn't impress me. Gobert only shoots from within 5 feet. Almost all of his buckets were amazing passes by teammates that he just threw down. I give him credit for rolling, catching and finishing, but it's not like he backed AD down and got some points.

We can't give up 58 paint points while his man scores 40+ and we go saying he had a great game. It's not possible.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

If AD hits a jumper from outside, that's good defense? AD got where he wanted when he wanted. Scoring, rebounding, etc. AD was a beast. Gobert was not. If a PG hit a shot over Conley over and over, we're okay with that? What logic is that?

As for offense, 6-6 doesn't impress me. Gobert only shoots from within 5 feet. Almost all of his buckets were amazing passes by teammates that he just threw down. I give him credit for rolling, catching and finishing, but it's not like he backed AD down and got some points.

We can't give up 58 paint points while his man scores 40+ and we go saying he had a great game. It's not possible.

Jesus you are dense sometimes... not all the times but holy ****. Lakers are good in transition... when you turn the ball over a **** ton of times like we did it leads to many transition opportunities.

AD did not get where he wanted in half court... Davis scored some on three pointers... threes he gets any night he wants.. he just made 50% of them instead of 34%. AD did not back down Rudy either... he shot face up jumpers that mostly missed. He got out in transition... he hit some three pointers (off of passes from other guys). I promise you that AD's point paints were primarily off of transition... not because he got wherever he wanted. He tried forcing the issue in the first quarter and went 6-14 with a turnover.

Let's just say that AD goes 3/8 from three... still above his average... and lets just say JC hits 3/9 from three... below his average... we make up that 8 point gap right there. Its a make or miss league... they made enough shots... we did not. It is really that simples sometimes. Rudy, DM and others did their jobs but it just wasn't enough to carry the guys that sucked.

I'm sorry you aren't impressed with how hard Rudy works to get those 6 opportunities and that you can't see most of those were contested or alley oops we went up and got over multiple athletic giant defenders. If we were hitting any three pointer maybe people wouldn't pack the paint so hard and he could get a couple more.

 

[LoPo]

Jesus you are dense sometimes... not all the times but holy ****. Lakers are good in transition... when you turn the ball over a **** ton of times like we did it leads to many transition opportunities.

AD did not get where he wanted in half court... Davis scored some on three pointers... threes he gets any night he wants.. he just made 50% of them instead of 34%. AD did not back down Rudy either... he shot face up jumpers that mostly missed. He got out in transition... he hit some three pointers (off of passes from other guys). I promise you that AD's point paints were primarily off of transition... not because he got wherever he wanted. He tried forcing the issue in the first quarter and went 6-14 with a turnover.

Let's just say that AD goes 3/8 from three... still above his average... and lets just say JC hits 3/9 from three... below his average... we make up that 8 point gap right there. Its a make or miss league... they made enough shots... we did not. It is really that simples sometimes. Rudy, DM and others did their jobs but it just wasn't enough to carry the guys that sucked.

I'm sorry you aren't impressed with how hard Rudy works to get those 6 opportunities and that you can't see most of those were contested or alley oops we went up and got over multiple athletic giant defenders. If we were hitting any three pointer maybe people wouldn't pack the paint so hard and he could get a couple more.

Say whatever you want to say - Rudy didn't protect the paint and his guy scored 40+. He didn't have a great game. He wasn't the reason we stayed in the game. Mitchell played out of his mind in the first half, Royce guarded everybody and Conley had a good game. Rudy was average. He's not the reason we lost. He's also not a reason we could have won.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Say whatever you want to say - Rudy didn't protect the paint and his guy scored 40+. He didn't have a great game. He wasn't the reason we stayed in the game. Mitchell played out of his mind in the first half, Royce guarded everybody and Conley had a good game. Rudy was average. He's not the reason we lost. He's also not a reason we could have won.

He forced AD into 11 mid range shots... he went 2/11 on those shots. The lakers are good in transition... AD got loose when Rudy was out of the game on a bunch of those. Really tough for him to guard "his man" when he is on the bench. His guy was force fed the ball and Rudy did just fine... Had he not been out there we lose by 20... he is one of the reasons we could have won.

It is not Rudy's fault that the team turned the ball over and the lakers got in transition... AD got a very good whistle as well. Look AD was good... turns out he's good at basketball too. He was better than Rudy last night, but to say Rudy wasn't good and was average is some of the dumbest **** I've heard.

 

[cowhide]

Did you watch the ****ing game? Dead *** serious. AD got a ton in transition as did their other guys... most of that was with Rudy on the bench. They got lobs when Tony was in the game because Lebron gonna pick that **** apart.

When Rudy was on AD he got jumpers... worst thing he did was let him hit a couple threes... he's a 34% three point shooter and 95% of the teams in the league are going to live with him shooting contested threes. Rudy can get out and guard those, but he has midgets behind him so if he gets beat at all its over.

Rudy went for 16 on 6 shots. AD had 40+ but it wasn't super efficient when Rudy was on him. Its a pretty damn tough ask to have Rudy help on Lebron, guard AD and then fight an additional athletic 7 footer for rebounds. But sure we gave up points in the paint and AD got every ****ing call so Rudy was trash.

I agree, Rudy was not the problem last night. The problem is that we miss Bogey, we lack athleticism especially on the bench and our trio of Joe, Royce and Clarkson didn't step up offensively. Joe and Clarkson were the main reason why the Jazz lost. The Jazz need to address their depth and they can do this by getting better players at the SF/PF positions and moving Joe and Royce to the bench were they belong. Oh yea. Too many stupid turnovers too.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Denver is a foot taller at almost every position. We aren’t showing out very well against taller and more athletic competition. And Denver can apply loads of pressure with dribble penetration. That’s all a bad recipe. We might make it to the 6th game of that series.

I'm primarily concerned about defensive length... and Denver has some good defenders with length but it isn't like the Lakers and Clippers where it comes at you in waves. OKC just beat the **** out of us so I'm basically calling Denver, Okc, and Houston basically equals. All these teams are good.

The reason I would like Denver is I think they can be exploited and have some flawed guys they have to rely on (like us). Murray runs hot and cold and is a bad defender. Jokic is a solid defender but we can get what we want at the rim mostly. MP Jr. is good but he is absolutely atrocious on defense. In the playoffs he will make Niang look like an all team defender.

 

[LoPo]

He forced AD into 11 mid range shots... he went 2/11 on those shots. The lakers are good in transition... AD got loose when Rudy was out of the game on a bunch of those. Really tough for him to guard "his man" when he is on the bench. His guy was force fed the ball and Rudy did just fine... Had he not been out there we lose by 20... he is one of the reasons we could have won.

It is not Rudy's fault that the team turned the ball over and the lakers got in transition... AD got a very good whistle as well. Look AD was good... turns out he's good at basketball too. He was better than Rudy last night, but to say Rudy wasn't good and was average is some of the dumbest **** I've heard.

We can agree to disagree. Rudy is a good player, and he was going to do things to make the other team work harder on offense. That's why he makes $25 million a year. At the end of the day, he did what he does but he didn't have some above average game.

If our opponent and his man did that to us every night, there is no way he is considered for the DPOY. Correct? So by his standards, he didn't have a good game. He was average.

 

[cowhide]

Jazz are screwed until they get more size and athleticism. Our best player, DM is an undersized SG. Teams have figured out that they can put size on him and he struggles. With Bogie out they can now double team him. DM is great and he kept the Jazz in it but he fizzled out in the second half. I don't know if DM can become a real PG and for this reason the Jazz need to surround him with length.

As for Niang's minutes, they need to go to the G-leaguers.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

If our opponent and his man did that to us every night, there is no way he is considered for the DPOY. Correct? So by his standards, he didn't have a good game. He was average.

Yes because we will play the lakers every night and every night Anthony Davis will shoot 50% from three... he had a good game against a great team... if we had played the #15 team in the league last night and that happened every night then call it average.

I mean when Royce turned the ball over at halfcourt and AD got an easy run out dunk Rudy should have stopped that right... I mean he is the DPOY. I mean when he comes over to help on KCP because Mudiay can't stay with him and he makes him miss then AD dunks the put back... that's on Rudy... he is the DPOY.

 

[LoPo]

Yes because we will play the lakers every night and every night Anthony Davis will shoot 50% from three... he had a good game against a great team... if we had played the #15 team in the league last night and that happened every night then call it average.

I mean when Royce turned the ball over at halfcourt and AD got an easy run out dunk Rudy should have stopped that right... I mean he is the DPOY. I mean when he comes over to help on KCP because Mudiay can't stay with him and he makes him miss then AD dunks the put back... that's on Rudy... he is the DPOY.

That wasn't the question. Regardless of who we play, if we gave up 55+ paint points and the opposing center scored 40+, would Rudy be considered for the DPOY? I'll answer that for you - NO. He wouldn't make the short list. He wouldn't make the conversation. Rudy Gobert is considered a phenomenal defender because the other team struggles to score in the paint and he does a good job neutralizing the opponent's best big. Last night, he did neither. Not only didn't he do either, our numbers were terrible.

Many would say he had an awful game. I'm not saying that. I'm simply saying your statement that Rudy had a great game is simply false. Rudy had an average game. Not bad, but not great. It's okay. Live to play another day.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

I'm down to try Morgan as well. ANYONE BUT BRADLEY OR NIANG

The problem is Bradley + Niang playing at the same time. I think Bradley is okay if there's a legit defensive 4 playing next to him.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

The Jazz's defense was very good in the half court. That's a big achievement for this group. The problem is that we clanged so many shots and had so many turnovers that the Lakers got out in transition. Once Lebron and AD are running in transition it's curtains.

 

[The Thriller]

Denver is a foot taller at almost every position. We aren’t showing out very well against taller and more athletic competition. And Denver can apply loads of pressure with dribble penetration. That’s all a bad recipe. We might make it to the 6th game of that series.

I’ll get flamed for saying this but Denver is one of the most entertaining teams to watch right now. They play good team ball. Joker is the modern day Duncan/Sabonis. If a young kid wants to learn the game, there’s no one better to learn from.

They are what we were supposed to be. A complete team without an elite superstar although joker is pretty damn elite.

 

[The Thriller]

The problem is Bradley + Niang playing at the same time. I think Bradley is okay if there's a legit defensive 4 playing next to him.

Our bench went from having Favors and Crowder to Bradley and Niang. We still haven’t recovered from that loss. No matter how good Bogie shoots, the drop off when our second unit plays with Niang and Bradley negates whatever gains Bogie provided As a starter.