This is a loss.

[green]

Very true, but many of those who fled Cuba were their 1 percent or profiting from the illegal activities of the mob there (which if you didn't know was thrown out and whose leaders were imprisoned). So, they have a skewed idea of socialism. Not only that but the U.S. demonized Castro whose motivation was to bring up the people of Cuba. The problem for Castro was that he faced not merely an economic boycott by the U.S. (some of which is still ongoing) but constant pressure from U.S. intelligence to assassinate or overthrow him. If it were not for the Soviet Union, the Castro government would never have survived.

Also very true. Which is why we can't lump "latinos" together. They are such a diverse group and to label them the same and try to talk to them the same...it won't work, as we can see with democrats falling futher and further behind in Florida. Florida is just about a red state and not a swing state anymore.

 

[Getting Traded]

Because they believed his populist message. They believed he was going to bring back factory jobs, he was going to bring back coal, he was going to negotiate trade deals that would benefit American workers. And all their problems were was always someone else's fault....the Mexicans, the Chinese, woke pink haired girls and guys on college campuses.

Basically because they are ****ing ignorant. But please tell what's the problem with people in Utah who have jobs and are well off? I've never met so many airheads in my life than here in Utah (just look at the politicians that represent the state) -- pardon me, all Utahns on the board, as there are many well-informed, intelligent people here. Wish I could find them in the general public.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

There are worse places to live and most of the history of civilization is ugly. Part of the issue I have with the media and democrats is that if you don't vote the way they agree with then you are a racist, sexist, simp without brain cells. People vote for candidates for a lot of reasons. I voted against the party I traditionally have identified with... it was hard and you wouldn't believe how much grief I got. People are willing to hold their nose and vote for a ****** person because they will keep taxes low or limit business regulations etc. I voted for Biden not because of his politics or his parties politics, but because I had hoped he could bring us together or at least that the media wouldn't fan the flames as much with him at the helm. Had hoped the Republican party could return to something I could respect a bit more if Trump is gone.

I still think the majority of people are mostly good... selfish but good.

 

[magic]

The sad thing is this shows that the election can be bought by the media and giant tech companies acting as super PACs. I don't see how a Republican can win in the future when every 4 years the media can spin up a narrative causing chaos and the tech companies can censor anything bad about their Democratic candidate while highlighting only good news about their candidate and bad news about the opponent.

 

[green]

There are worse places to live and most of the history of civilization is ugly. Part of the issue I have with the media and democrats is that if you don't vote the way they agree with then you are a racist, sexist, simp without brain cells. People vote for candidates for a lot of reasons. I voted against the party I traditionally have identified with... it was hard and you wouldn't believe how much grief I got. People are willing to hold their nose and vote for a ****** person because they will keep taxes low or limit business regulations etc. I voted for Biden not because of his politics or his parties politics, but because I had hoped he could bring us together or at least that the media wouldn't fan the flames as much with him at the helm. Had hoped the Republican party could return to something I could respect a bit more if Trump is gone.

I still think the majority of people are mostly good... selfish but good.

I think this is a prevailing attitude among a lot of Republicans and I don't understand it.

"There are worse places to live"

Ok, there are. Buy why not make this place better? Why accept mediocrity when we can make it better. Other places have made it better. Other places have tried different things. Some have failed, but some have worked and if we do those things...we aren't commie socialists, we are getting better. I stayed in Utah for a loooong time because of this mentality. Man, everywhere I have lived has been so much better than Utah. It's crazy. I look back at how miserable I was there...don't settle. There are worse places to live....BUT there are BETTER places to live as well.

"Most of the history of civilization is ugly"

Again, yes. But why keep doing those things? Why continue to treat others poorly? Because your parents did it? Because you don't know a LGBTQ person and you are a little nervous? Because you don't understand? So we just stick our heads in the sand and ignore it, because "my grandparents were racist and fought for racism and we aren't that bad anymore so it's ok if I don't do anything"?

"If you don't vote they way they agree with then you are racist, sexist, simp without brain cells"

OK. Why do so many openly racist people vote for Trump? Does Biden have this issue? Does Biden publically support the racists with his actions? Does Biden tell the Proud Boys to "stand by"? And if Trump does these things, doesn't that make him a racist? And if it does and you vote for him, aren't you voting for a racist?

Same with being called a sexist. Have you not seen how Trump has treated women in the past? Have you not seen him with Epstien, talking about all the young women? Have you not seen him bragging about sexually assaulting women? Have you not seen him blocking DNA tests that would prove him innocent if he didn't rape that teenager? Have you not seen the way he talks to women in press conferences and in interviews?

Trump is sexist. That isn't up for debate. And by voting for him, that makes you supportive of a sexist.

And the simp without brain cells...I mean, look at the loudest Trump supporters on this site. Look at some of the Trump supporters who are against Biden's $400K tax plan. Look at who votes for Trump, mostly uneducated men. So, I mean...if the shoe fits.

Speaking truth that some don't want to hear isn't a me problem. If you are voting for a sexist, racist person who is making unintelligent arguments...you are what you are.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think this is a prevailing attitude among a lot of Republicans and I don't understand it.

"There are worse places to live"

Ok, there are. Buy why not make this place better? Why accept mediocrity when we can make it better. Other places have made it better. Other places have tried different things. Some have failed, but some have worked and if we do those things...we aren't commie socialists, we are getting better. I stayed in Utah for a loooong time because of this mentality. Man, everywhere I have lived has been so much better than Utah. It's crazy. I look back at how miserable I was there...don't settle. There are worse places to live....BUT there are BETTER places to live as well.

"Most of the history of civilization is ugly"

Again, yes. But why keep doing those things? Why continue to treat others poorly? Because your parents did it? Because you don't know a LGBTQ person and you are a little nervous? Because you don't understand? So we just stick our heads in the sand and ignore it, because "my grandparents were racist and fought for racism and we aren't that bad anymore so it's ok if I don't do anything"?

"If you don't vote they way they agree with then you are racist, sexist, simp without brain cells"

OK. Why do so many openly racist people vote for Trump? Does Biden have this issue? Does Biden publically support the racists with his actions? Does Biden tell the Proud Boys to "stand by"? And if Trump does these things, doesn't that make him a racist? And if it does and you vote for him, aren't you voting for a racist?

Same with being called a sexist. Have you not seen how Trump has treated women in the past? Have you not seen him with Epstien, talking about all the young women? Have you not seen him bragging about sexually assaulting women? Have you not seen him blocking DNA tests that would prove him innocent if he didn't rape that teenager? Have you not seen the way he talks to women in press conferences and in interviews?

Trump is sexist. That isn't up for debate. And by voting for him, that makes you supportive of a sexist.

And the simp without brain cells...I mean, look at the loudest Trump supporters on this site. Look at some of the Trump supporters who are against Biden's $400K tax plan. Look at who votes for Trump, mostly uneducated men. So, I mean...if the shoe fits.

Speaking truth that some don't want to hear isn't a me problem. If you are voting for a sexist, racist person who is making unintelligent arguments...you are what you are.

Homey... I voted for Biden for reasons you stated above. People are complex and nuanced. It is not just simply vote for the person I think is best or you are an uneducated redneck racist... sorry. There are ****** loud people that are openly racist that support Trump I get that. Its republicans saying Dems are all free loading socialist millennials that want something for nothing.

I am not saying don't make it better... I am not saying repeat the same ********. I am sayin if you leave because this place is so awful... you will likely find things just as awful or more awful about the place you go to. Recognizing the good here and improving on the bad is exactly what we should do. Simply bailing is not a solution. Hate and racism are more prevalent than I thought... but uncovering it is a good step in moving forward.

The fact that we have a lot of loud people asking for change is great and should give hope. Maybe... just maybe there are changes that need to be made to the approach Dems are taking because it seems to be biting them in the ***.

Many of the folks I know that are voting for Trump aren't uneducated and they aren't dumb. They are protecting the pocket book and are afraid of spinning off into socialism. Real or not that is what they vote on. The whole all or nothing... you are either with us or you are a piece of **** is not an attitude that wins people to your cause. Don't worry about the racist flag flying gun toting assholes... speak to the people in the middle... that's where most people land.

My views on politics are way too simple and likely outdated. I'd like as much equality as possible, I'd like small efficient government, and I'd like to be safe and given an opportunity to prosper.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think this is a prevailing attitude among a lot of Republicans and I don't understand it.

"There are worse places to live"

Ok, there are. Buy why not make this place better? Why accept mediocrity when we can make it better. Other places have made it better. Other places have tried different things. Some have failed, but some have worked and if we do those things...we aren't commie socialists, we are getting better. I stayed in Utah for a loooong time because of this mentality. Man, everywhere I have lived has been so much better than Utah. It's crazy. I look back at how miserable I was there...don't settle. There are worse places to live....BUT there are BETTER places to live as well.

"Most of the history of civilization is ugly"

Again, yes. But why keep doing those things? Why continue to treat others poorly? Because your parents did it? Because you don't know a LGBTQ person and you are a little nervous? Because you don't understand? So we just stick our heads in the sand and ignore it, because "my grandparents were racist and fought for racism and we aren't that bad anymore so it's ok if I don't do anything"?

"If you don't vote they way they agree with then you are racist, sexist, simp without brain cells"

OK. Why do so many openly racist people vote for Trump? Does Biden have this issue? Does Biden publically support the racists with his actions? Does Biden tell the Proud Boys to "stand by"? And if Trump does these things, doesn't that make him a racist? And if it does and you vote for him, aren't you voting for a racist?

Same with being called a sexist. Have you not seen how Trump has treated women in the past? Have you not seen him with Epstien, talking about all the young women? Have you not seen him bragging about sexually assaulting women? Have you not seen him blocking DNA tests that would prove him innocent if he didn't rape that teenager? Have you not seen the way he talks to women in press conferences and in interviews?

Trump is sexist. That isn't up for debate. And by voting for him, that makes you supportive of a sexist.

And the simp without brain cells...I mean, look at the loudest Trump supporters on this site. Look at some of the Trump supporters who are against Biden's $400K tax plan. Look at who votes for Trump, mostly uneducated men. So, I mean...if the shoe fits.

Speaking truth that some don't want to hear isn't a me problem. If you are voting for a sexist, racist person who is making unintelligent arguments...you are what you are.

Quick hitter... I do understand where you are coming from though. It is kind of insane when I talk with members of my wife's family about Trump and they are like "is he really that bad". Why yes, yes he is. And it likely is much worse than we've actually seen. They tend to blow off the things he says as him just running his mouth.
Its sad. So I know a lot of good people that voted for Trump and I think they are wrong. I couldn't put my name on his vote... I just couldn't. I understand why they did... kind of.

 

[One Brow]

The sad thing is this shows that the election can be bought by the media and giant tech companies acting as super PACs. I don't see how a Republican can win in the future when every 4 years the media can spin up a narrative causing chaos and the tech companies can censor anything bad about their Democratic candidate while highlighting only good news about their candidate and bad news about the opponent.

The media causes chaos on all sides of the electoral spectrum, and the tech companies only restrict unreliable information or outright lies. Are you saying conservatives can't win without lying?

 

[green]

Homey... I voted for Biden for reasons you stated above. People are complex and nuanced. It is not just simply vote for the person I think is best or you are an uneducated redneck racist... sorry. There are ****** loud people that are openly racist that support Trump I get that. Its republicans saying Dems are all free loading socialist millennials that want something for nothing.

I am not saying don't make it better... I am not saying repeat the same ********. I am sayin if you leave because this place is so awful... you will likely find things just as awful or more awful about the place you go to. Recognizing the good here and improving on the bad is exactly what we should do. Simply bailing is not a solution. Hate and racism are more prevalent than I thought... but uncovering it is a good step in moving forward.

The fact that we have a lot of loud people asking for change is great and should give hope. Maybe... just maybe there are changes that need to be made to the approach Dems are taking because it seems to be biting them in the ***.

Many of the folks I know that are voting for Trump aren't uneducated and they aren't dumb. They are protecting the pocket book and are afraid of spinning off into socialism. Real or not that is what they vote on. The whole all or nothing... you are either with us or you are a piece of **** is not an attitude that wins people to your cause. Don't worry about the racist flag flying gun toting assholes... speak to the people in the middle... that's where most people land.

My views on politics are way too simple and likely outdated. I'd like as much equality as possible, I'd like small efficient government, and I'd like to be safe and given an opportunity to prosper.

You voted the way you did because of your principles. The Trump voters do the same thing. That is what I am saying. Trump isn't the only republican who has the ideals that those voters look for. But he does have all those terrible qualities and he has stirred up a passion in the right we haven't seen in a long, long time. That is terrifying.

I agree with your paragraphs 2 and 3.

Paragraph 4...if you think Biden is a socialist...you are pretty ignorant. If you think he will reduce their pocketbook...unless you are making $400,000 a year, he won't and less than 1% make that much and it probably ain't your folks that you know and if you don't understand how Biden's tax plan works...you aren't making $400,000 which kind of makes you...ignorant at best.

I worry about the racist flag flying assholes when the president calls them good people, tells them to stand by, and openly courts them and their wack-o conspiracy theories (QAnon, etc). It is an all or none.

I agree with equality, I think asking for a small and efficient government is what everyone wants, I'm not sure that is a reality with how big population wise and money wise the US is, and I also want to be safe and prosper.

Like you've said, the left and right are so close together. We need to purge the racist, sexist, bigoted bullcrap and actually talk about real issues. And Trump doesn't allow that. And my concern is that a lot of the right's leadership, such as Spencer Cox (who supports Trump and QAnon), Mike Lee, McConnel, Lindsey don't allow that. Again, when the people who represent a certain party are racist and bigots and sexist and people keep voting for them...maybe the problem isn't the narrative or the news or the left.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

You voted the way you did because of your principles. The Trump voters do the same thing. That is what I am saying. Trump isn't the only republican who has the ideals that those voters look for. But he does have all those terrible qualities and he has stirred up a passion in the right we haven't seen in a long, long time. That is terrifying.

I agree with your paragraphs 2 and 3.

Paragraph 4...if you think Biden is a socialist...you are pretty ignorant. If you think he will reduce their pocketbook...unless you are making $400,000 a year, he won't and less than 1% make that much and it probably ain't your folks that you know and if you don't understand how Biden's tax plan works...you aren't making $400,000 which kind of makes you...ignorant at best.

I worry about the racist flag flying assholes when the president calls them good people, tells them to stand by, and openly courts them and their wack-o conspiracy theories (QAnon, etc). It is an all or none.

I agree with equality, I think asking for a small and efficient government is what everyone wants, I'm not sure that is a reality with how big population wise and money wise the US is, and I also want to be safe and prosper.

Like you've said, the left and right are so close together. We need to purge the racist, sexist, bigoted bullcrap and actually talk about real issues. And Trump doesn't allow that. And my concern is that a lot of the right's leadership, such as Spencer Cox (who supports Trump and QAnon), Mike Lee, McConnel, Lindsey don't allow that. Again, when the people who represent a certain party are racist and bigots and sexist and people keep voting for them...maybe the problem isn't the narrative or the news or the left.

I know you know taxes... I do as well. I had to explain to my wife that the reason we are doing well is not because of a Trump tax plan but because I've worked really hard and actually Trump screwed us CA residents with his limits on real estate tax deduction limits and a few other things. His tax changes catered to the wealthy/super wealthy when he claimed they were a win for the common man.

Most of my family (and most people in general) don't understand tax law/plans well enough to have an opinion... they just see Democrat and think taxes are going up and government is getting bigger. I don't think he's socialist. I'm cool with paying some extra tax and am fine with the wealthy paying more... most are not.

I honestly think some deck chairs are re-arranged but there won't be big changes... I just wanted someone in the office that warrants respect. Trump makes me feel icky... I still can't believe he became president.

 

[green]

I know you know taxes... I do as well. I had to explain to my wife that the reason we are doing well is not because of a Trump tax plan but because I've worked really hard and actually Trump screwed us CA residents with his limits on real estate tax deduction limits and a few other things. His tax changes catered to the wealthy/super wealthy when he claimed they were a win for the common man.

Most of my family (and most people in general) don't understand tax law/plans well enough to have an opinion... they just see Democrat and think taxes are going up and government is getting bigger. I don't think he's socialist. I'm cool with paying some extra tax and am fine with the wealthy paying more... most are not.

I honestly think some deck chairs are re-arranged but there won't be big changes... I just wanted someone in the office that warrants respect. Trump makes me feel icky... I still can't believe he became president.

Such a good point. The left has to figure out a way to get the right, non-crazy to listen to them. To listen to the tax plan. To understand that FOX News has admitted they straight up lie to drive ratings and realize that they can look outside of their bubble and really research things.

I see a TON of small town people who are paying 400-1600 a month in health insurance...that has $7,500 deductables...which means they pay $12,300 to $26,700 A YEAR BEFORE they really get any extensive benefit from their health insurance.

And yet those people think that raising everyone's taxes by $300 a month but having universal health coverage will cost them more money. When in reality, the cost is $3,600 a year in taxes vs $12,300-$26,700 in insurance premiums and deductables.

AND if they include themselves in the legislative process, they can get provisions put in that they want and would benefit them.

But no, universal healthcare iS SociALiSm and we can't have that. And this is just one issue of many that the left stands for that would help the right. Higher taxes on the rich so we can fund public universities like we did for our parents so they could get out of college realtively debt free. Biden's tax plan is a NO BRAINER. If everyone sat down, didn't know it was a Biden/lefty/socialist tax plan, 98% of us would look at it and be like, "why aren't we already doing this, this is just common sense."

There has to be a way to reach those people.

 

[leftyjace]

I am considering moving to Ukraine. My faith in America as a good place full of good people is shot.

OK, I’ll bite.

Why Ukraine?