CONAN
Well-Known Member
Intellectual honesty . . . get some.
BYU to the Big 12 discussion???
- Thread starter seattlejazzfan
- Start date
CONAN
Well-Known Member
For the record there is no question BYU goes to the first BCS conference they can on their terms. They are not accepting invites because they don't like the BCS. They are turning down offers because they aren't getting what they want. No Sunday play, TV exposure, rights to broadcasts, etc.
Haters can paint it however they want but BYU is not like other colleges like Utah who make zero demands and are just happy to be at the table with the big boys. Sorry, that's just how it is. And that doesn't mean one is better than the other, it just means they're different. Utah is just like 99% of the colleges out there right now just trying to make sure they don't get left out in the cold. BYU and a few other colleges are not like that. Does that mean BYU may get left out in the cold from a football perspective? For sure. But unlike most other schools out there, BYU is going to do it on their terms. Not better terms, just different.
But it's not surprising that Utah fans are acting petty now that they are in a BCS conference. You guys do realize if BYU made zero demands like Utah did they would've been in a big boy conference decades ago? Sorry, that's the truth.
But you can't just like you can't handle my sig.
Haters can paint it however they want but BYU is not like other colleges like Utah who make zero demands and are just happy to be at the table with the big boys. Sorry, that's just how it is. And that doesn't mean one is better than the other, it just means they're different. Utah is just like 99% of the colleges out there right now just trying to make sure they don't get left out in the cold. BYU and a few other colleges are not like that. Does that mean BYU may get left out in the cold from a football perspective? For sure. But unlike most other schools out there, BYU is going to do it on their terms. Not better terms, just different.
But it's not surprising that Utah fans are acting petty now that they are in a BCS conference. You guys do realize if BYU made zero demands like Utah did they would've been in a big boy conference decades ago? Sorry, that's the truth.
But you can't just like you can't handle my sig.
Bronco, please... I know you. I know you're a Ute fan, but you're not retarded, so why act like it?
Right. There haven't been numerous posts on this very forum that fit into that snobby **** attitude, right? For example, how many times have I read that BYU shouldn't even be on your schedule anymore because we're just a lowly indy team now? Aside from this website, (which only has a handful of idiot Utah flamers) other forums are just rife with this nonsense. One look no further than your next drive to work -- how many of these will you spot on someones car:
There is no moral high ground. It's like JM12 said, it's black and white. You guys sold out, we didn't. I WOULD be upset if/when BYU goes to a BCS conference, but at least I'd have a morsel of pride knowing that we joined on our own damn terms. That being said, if BYU were in and Utah was left out, I'd absolutely be pointing and laughing -- I'm a dick. /shrug
54-10 LOL!!1
1- BYU would not have moved on to the BIG12 if Utah was still in the Mountain West. (assuming the Y got an invite and wanted to go)
2- The neener, neener, neener is definitely a big part of many Ute fans attitude. If you don't see it, it probably means you have it.
3- There is no #3
4- I have not already decided how Utah fans are, but I am close to deciding how you and other posters are as a Utah fans. What you do and say does not support a stereotype, the stereotype generalizes your actions and posts to all other Utah fans.
5-
7StraightIsGreat
Well-Known Member
Conan Wrote:
For as much as we disagree on everything, that is EXACTLY my point on the matter. Again, I don't think Sunday play is the hold up because I think these conferences know that BYU isn't going to budge on that. I guess where people like us start to differ is that you think BYU holding out for guaranteed TV games and rights to broadcasts on BYUtv is somehow making BYU more look more noble than Utah and I just think it means that BYU has mistaken their place on the food chain.
Heading into all of this conference shake-up craziness I felt like BYU and Utah were very similar in terms of program quality. One had a better past history filled with national success, one had a more current history of national success, both play in the same market, both were nearly neck-in-neck in regards to recent MWC titles, and most importantly- both were not really thought of that much outside of Utah or their respective alumni and church members who may be spread across the nation. The biggest difference in the programs (besides the religious aspects) started to become that Utah understood their spot on the food chain and realized that if they wanted to improve it, they were going to have to take a step up. They positioned themselves to be a very attractive option for the Pac 12 and it worked out. It was a shrewd move by Utah that will benefit the entire school ten-fold as the years go by. On the opposite side of the spectrum, you have BYU thinking that "we're this" and "we're that" and the problem is, nobody else seems to agree with them on that.
BYU should never (and will never) budge on the Sunday play issue. But the broadcast rights and TV guarantees? They need to get over themselves and move on. From a football standpoint, they are no better than the Utah's, TCU's, and Boise St's of the world and none of those programs are getting catered to in such a manner. And while these conferences might be willing to bend on Sunday play, they're not going to set your school up with sweetheart TV deals and special incentives to join their conference just because you guys are "different".
For as much as we disagree on everything, that is EXACTLY my point on the matter. Again, I don't think Sunday play is the hold up because I think these conferences know that BYU isn't going to budge on that. I guess where people like us start to differ is that you think BYU holding out for guaranteed TV games and rights to broadcasts on BYUtv is somehow making BYU more look more noble than Utah and I just think it means that BYU has mistaken their place on the food chain.
Heading into all of this conference shake-up craziness I felt like BYU and Utah were very similar in terms of program quality. One had a better past history filled with national success, one had a more current history of national success, both play in the same market, both were nearly neck-in-neck in regards to recent MWC titles, and most importantly- both were not really thought of that much outside of Utah or their respective alumni and church members who may be spread across the nation. The biggest difference in the programs (besides the religious aspects) started to become that Utah understood their spot on the food chain and realized that if they wanted to improve it, they were going to have to take a step up. They positioned themselves to be a very attractive option for the Pac 12 and it worked out. It was a shrewd move by Utah that will benefit the entire school ten-fold as the years go by. On the opposite side of the spectrum, you have BYU thinking that "we're this" and "we're that" and the problem is, nobody else seems to agree with them on that.
BYU should never (and will never) budge on the Sunday play issue. But the broadcast rights and TV guarantees? They need to get over themselves and move on. From a football standpoint, they are no better than the Utah's, TCU's, and Boise St's of the world and none of those programs are getting catered to in such a manner. And while these conferences might be willing to bend on Sunday play, they're not going to set your school up with sweetheart TV deals and special incentives to join their conference just because you guys are "different".
7StraightIsGreat
Well-Known Member
I have a two part question for #1:
Are you saying that BYU would have stayed in the MWC out of a sense of loyalty to Utah?
And if so,
Why?
Yes. I don't have links, so this is just off of memory.
BYU would have gone independent earlier, or joined another conference given the right circumstance except they felt some loyalty to the University of Utah. They also felt bad about leaving Utah State behind way back when. I heard rumblings of BYU going independent, or somehow getting out of the MWC years before The U went to the Pac 12 but they would not pull the trigger on it specifically because of the U.
Correct me if I'm wrong on this, and I'm sure you will.... but I am not wrong.
Do I blame the U for going to the Pac 12 alone? No. I'm just saying BYU would not have done it out of loyalty. Is that dumb of them? Financially it could be, as to exposure it could be, but if they are trying to stand by their friends I don't think it's wrong.
Yes, I said friends.
freakazoid
Well-Known Member
I was really trying to be nice this year, but certain BYU trolls brought out the worst in me. I apologize to the well mannered BYU fans who don't really deserve to have the Pounding In Provo rubbed in their faces. Unfortunately, it seems as though there are a few people who need to be reminded periodically that it is Utah who has bragging rights between the two teams. At least until next year. Probably forever.
Rich...and compelling.
True, the winner next year has bragging rights far into the future.
I don't mind the rubbing in much, every once in a while I need to chime in.
Usually when I'm bored.
Wait, Trout blew something out of proportion? Never!
One day, I will be vindicated.
I've always tried to be respectful when discussing Utah/BYU. I'm not a BYU hater, I'm more of a live and let live guy. Apparently I've failed. Sorry Spazz.
I didn't realize that by expressing an opinion about BYU's situation, as a Utah fan, I was automatically thumbing my nose at their fans. Or that the street of disrespect only flows one way. I am a victim of my own ignorance.
I didn't realize that by expressing an opinion about BYU's situation, as a Utah fan, I was automatically thumbing my nose at their fans. Or that the street of disrespect only flows one way. I am a victim of my own ignorance.
It's OK Bronco, not all of us can be perfect. FWIW, I'm sorry I called you a retard.
Really, that was probably the most accurate part of that post.
7StraightIsGreat
Well-Known Member
It's a neat story, without any substance to it what so ever. If you want to hear a good story about BYU's in-state loyalty, ask Utah State about how BYU completely screwed the Aggies out of a chance to join the MWC last year. Or about the time BYU magically decided that they were going to start wearing Aggie Blue.
CONAN
Well-Known Member
It's certainly noble from certain standpoints but for the most part not really at least not how I mean it. It's just different and always has been. Some fans just don't get that BYU's motivations are different than 99% of the programs out there. I don't blame any conferences for turning away BYU given their demands and profile. But I don't fault BYU for sticking by their guns. For sure it hurts football and moreso Bronco but it is what it is.
Like I said, if BYU never makes any demands they are in a big conference 20 years ago. So if that was the priority it would've happened back then.
Neither do I. I think most (rational) Utah fans understand that BYU has a different agenda than most schools, and that the football program works around that agenda, not vice versa. And I do believe it's noble that they have not sold their soul for football.
My issue is the persistent assertion that Utah somehow whored itself by jumping to the first big conference that would take it. Different school, different agenda, right? Utah has been eyeing the PAC12 for literally decades. And they put themselves into a position to be invited. I know it suits cougar fan to believe that Utah fell into it, by pity, accident, or just dumb luck. But the truth of the matter is, the PAC12 is happy to have them and they are happy to be there. And they don't feel like they need to go talk to their bishop because of it.
I don't fault Utah for going to the Pac 12. I think BYU is trying to get into a BCS conference. They just want to do on their own terms. Anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves. I dislike the BCS system, but under the present circumstances, it's the best place to be. Personally, I would prefer to see BYU in a BCS conference and I don't discredit the idea of them going to the Big East with Boise and Air Force to form a western division. Provided the Big East allowed them to keep their own broadcast rights, it would allow them to fulfill their stated desires of exposure to the most people. Sunday play isn't that big of an issue for a conference that wants BYU.
7StraightIsGreat
Well-Known Member
I pretty much understand where the BYU fans are coming from on this one. I would just be bummed out if I was a Cougar fan and due to BYU's demands, they get left out. If you're stuck as an independent, is it really that great playing teams like Idaho and Idaho St. every November while having 2 bye weeks during that same month just so you can say that at least BYU retained their rights for broadcasts on BYUtv? Is BYUtv really going to help bring BYU to massive amounts of potential new fans, or is it simply going to cater to the people who already follow BYU? As an independent, is BYU really going to get that much more legit national TV games (meaning actually on ESPN as opposed to ESPN3 or ESPNU) than they would in the Big 12 if they dropped some of their demands?