Voter Suppression and Why The Republicans Love It So Much?

[Al-O-Meter]

I suspect attraction to authoritarian style leaders is also a part of what I’m most trying to understand, which is what the hell is happening within American society at this time in history.

Sorry for the delay. Had a big deliverable that had me mostly buried for a week.

The discussion over what truly motivates people, even in decisions as big as how authoritarian a government they will tolerate, dips quickly into the debate over free will. The human brain acts like 2 brains. All that you think you are is in the cerebral cortex. The so-called subconscious is made up of everything else.

While it appears that you take in input via your senses, make conscious decisions based on that information and have your body act out a response, science has shown that isn’t how it works. Your consciousness isn’t actually driving. It can drive but almost never does. Mostly your cerebral cortex just takes the credit and makes up stories for what the subconscious mind did without you.

Some of the most interesting experiments on this phenomenon involve blindsight. It is the condition in which the visual cortex is damaged and so the conscious mind cannot see but the subconscious mind can via visual centers in the amygdala and hMT+. It creates bizarre results like a blind man being able to cleanly walk down a hallway strewn with obstacles. When asked why he would sidestep, he’d explain that he thought the wall would be smoother over there or similar justification. Monkeys who’d had their visual cortex removed would still reach for fruit when it was held out in front of them.



There were also the Libet Experiments that detected the brain activity of the subconscious mind making a decision before the conscious mind thought it made the decision.



People who track with right-leaning ideologies are not different animals from those with left-leaning ideologies regardless of your right-left definition. They simply have a slightly different set of motivations. You can get either to readily accept authoritarian government but you may have to press different buttons.

There was a study sometime back that looked at how much people in various countries trusted their neighbor. In free countries, that number was always higher. It does make some sense if you believe your neighbor is going to inform on you to an authoritarian government, but the correlation can work both ways.

If you were an inclined authoritarian leader who wanted to increase his hold on power, what would you do to get right wingers to distrust their neighbors? What would you do to get left wingers to distrust their neighbors? Much like that magic video I posted earlier, it doesn’t have to be obvious or make sense. You aren’t aiming at the conscious decision-making mind. It is all about getting the subconscious mind to see neighbors as a threat.

I suspect attraction to authoritarian style leaders is directly related to how social trust is breaking down in the United States.

 

[Red]

@AI-O-Meter, First of all, thanks for your thoughtful reply. I only saw it last night, missed it in my notifications apparently. I apologize in advance for not giving it the time and thought it deserves in return. I’m going to fail on that count.

As far as decisions made beneath the surface, so to speak, the political ad men, and politicians in general, understand that to be the case. Presidents are marketed, it’s the “selling of the president” in each election cycle. Yes, people do consider issues, but triggering emotions like anger and fear are more likely to be what those doing the selling of a candidate aim for, not thoughtful consideration and rational thought processes. Especially since the dawn of the TV, the aim seems to be the baser instincts, beneath the surface. It’s a very cynical view of human nature and the electorate. It’s crafting a positive image for your candidate, and a negative image of your opponent. And that seldom involves appeals to the intellect of voters.

People who track with right-leaning ideologies are not different animals from those with left-leaning ideologies regardless of your right-left definition. They simply have a slightly different set of motivations. You can get either to readily accept authoritarian government but you may have to press different buttons.

Well, I won’t argue with this point of view. I’ll just throw this out there as potential food for thought, namely, that there may be biological differences, that are reflected in psychological differences, and differences in how liberals and conservatives respond to the world, and life.

Conservative and Liberal Brains Might Have Some Real Differences

Scanners try to watch the red-blue divide play out underneath the skull

www.scientificamerican.com

From the essay: “On the whole, the research shows, conservatives desire security, predictability and authority more than liberals do, and liberals are more comfortable with novelty, nuance and complexity. If you had put Buckley and Vidal in a magnetic resonance imaging machine and presented them with identical images, you would likely have seen differences in their brain, especially in the areas that process social and emotional information. The volume of gray matter, or neural cell bodies, making up the anterior cingulate cortex, an area that helps detect errors and resolve conflicts, tends to be larger in liberals. And the amygdala, which is important for regulating emotions and evaluating threats, is larger in conservatives”.

On a practical level, we just experienced a right wing authoritarian who was willing to attempt to remain in office by overturning a fair election on the basis of a Big Lie. And we are experiencing a party that not only supports that Big Lie, but which may very well attempt to steal the 2024 election, should it be closely contested.

The erosion of social trust that you speak of is perhaps no starker than that between the Left and Right, between the bases of the two parties. That specific distrust seems to have reached the level where each regards the other as the enemy of America. That’s lack of social trust to the max. Just one more reason why a Trump re-election in 2020 concerned me. I’ve already seen his authoritarian nature, I don’t want to see what else “own the liberals” might engender in this country, especially given what his base is capable of, and some perfectly willing, to accept. “It can’t happen here” is not an attitude I have ever shared. Americans are not “special” or immune from the worst impulses of human nature.

And, right now, the danger lies with the Republican Party I believe. If the 2024 election is closely contested, I expect Republicans will attempt to steal it. And if they cannot disown the Big Lie, that’s just not a good place for our body politic to be….

I found this Atlantic essay to be an excellent summation of the situation we are facing in this country:

The Biggest Threat to Democracy Is the GOP Stealing the Next Election

Unless and until the Republican Party recommits itself to playing by democratic rules of the game, American democracy will remain at risk.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[Al-O-Meter]

On a practical level, we just experienced a right wing authoritarian who was willing to attempt to remain in office by overturning a fair election

So that we're talking the same language, give me your definition of "authoritarian".

The Google definition is:

au·thor·i·tar·i·an
/əˌTHôrəˈterēən/
adjective
favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom.

I see Trump's act of trying to remain in office by overturning a fair election as corruption but not authoritarianism. Conversely I see stay-at-home executive orders to be authoritarian but not corrupt. To me "authoritarianism" has a requirement of personal freedoms being curtailed. Corruption is the misuse or disregard of a government system, power, or responsibility.

 

[Red]

So that we're talking the same language, give me your definition of "authoritarian".

The Google definition is:

au·thor·i·tar·i·an
/əˌTHôrəˈterēən/
adjective
favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom.

I see Trump's act of trying to remain in office by overturning a fair election as corruption but not authoritarianism. Conversely I see stay-at-home executive orders to be authoritarian but not corrupt. To me "authoritarianism" has a requirement of personal freedoms being curtailed. Corruption is the misuse or disregard of a government system, power, or responsibility.

I’ll just give you examples of how Trump was authoritarian.

Trump’s refusal to recognize the Constitutionally mandated power of oversight of the executive branch by Congress:

https://www.americanoversight.org/investigation/donald-trumps-obstruction-of-congressional-oversight

Trump’s authoritarianism an example of an absolutist interpretation of executive power:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/paloma/daily-202/2019/10/09/daily-202-trump-s-refusal-to-comply-with-house-subpoenas-depends-on-an-absolutist-view-of-executive-power/5d9d69d088e0fa747e6d51e8/

And I do consider the chief executive of the United States deliberately refusing to recognize the results of fair and free elections and attempting to overturn the results, to be authoritarianism writ large. I have never seen that before in American history. If refusing to recognize the results and crafting a Big Lie in order to illegally remain in power are not the actions of an authoritarian, than I guess I have no idea what an authoritarian leader looks like….

The growth of the imperial presidency did not begin with Trump, and that development has seen the power of the executive branch grow over several administrations. But an individual attempting to remain in power by, in effect, attempting to overturn an election by using a Big Lie as justification for retaining power, that is an authoritarian interpretation of power. I’m not defining authoritarian as you requested, but since I called the man an authoritarian, I’m giving you examples of why I consider him to be authoritarian via his actions, in both ignoring our system of checks and balances by denying the power granted the legislative branch, and in ignoring election results and attempting to remain in power despite losing an election. So these are the things I have in mind when I label Trump an authoritarian leader.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

Trump’s refusal to recognize the Constitutionally mandated power of oversight of the executive branch by Congress (including the refusal to comply with house subpoenas) [and] refusing to recognize the results of fair and free elections and attempting to overturn the results, to be authoritarianism...

Both fall in the category of being a misuse or disregard of a government system, power, or responsibility. Both examples are corruption.

Be aware that in your quest for articles centered on right-wingers readily accepting authoritarian leaders, the social and political scientists aren’t using the definition you are. Because authoritarianism includes the loss of personal freedom, supporters knowingly pay a price. They know they will give up something they have in order to get an authoritarian leader and they do it anyway. That is what makes it so psychologically interesting.

Tolerance for corrupt government is a different animal that I haven’t looked into but there certainly are some societies more accepting of corruption than others.

 

[fishonjazz]

I think trump and his peeps are more of a cult than authoritarian.


Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Red]

Both fall in the category of being a misuse or disregard of a government system, power, or responsibility. Both examples are corruption.

Be aware that in your quest for articles centered on right-wingers readily accepting authoritarian leaders, the social and political scientists aren’t using the definition you are. Because authoritarianism includes the loss of personal freedom, supporters knowingly pay a price. They know they will give up something they have in order to get an authoritarian leader and they do it anyway. That is what makes it so psychologically interesting.

Tolerance for corrupt government is a different animal that I haven’t looked into but there certainly are some societies more accepting of corruption than others.

We’ll have to agree to disagree. That is all. I’m not altering my opinion one iota. He may have essentially been a weak leader, but I’m comfortable seeing him as an authoritarian leader, a right wing populist demagogue. It was the fact that he was so easily recognizable as a demagogue that alarmed me in the first place. I was just too familiar with what such leaders portend for the societies in which they arise.

If Trump did not recognize the authority of the Legislative branch to exercise oversight over the Executive branch, (which he failed to recognize in ignoring Congressional subpoenas of executive branch employees), an authority granted by the Constitution, then he is saying his authority exceeds that of Congress, despite the three branches of the federal government being co-equals. He is placing his authority above that established by the Constitution. And that is a form of authoritarian leadership, elevating his own authority above what was established by the Constitution.

You wish to debate if something is corrupt or if it’s an element of authoritarianism. Not interested, we’re never going to be on the same page. I think it’s a no brainer that Trump was an authoritarian style leader. He was kept in check, fortunately, but I will always recognize him as an authoritarian demagogue.

President Trump’s use of the authoritarian playbook will have lasting consequences

Throughout his presidency, Donald Trump has exposed the fragility of democratic institutions, mirroring a global trend in authoritarianism, and that will have a lasting effect on the United States.

theconversation.com

America’s Next Authoritarian Will Be Much More Competent

Trump was ineffective and easily beaten. A future strongman won’t be.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[Red]

I think trump and his peeps are more of a cult than authoritarian.


Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

Being an authoritarian styled leader, and the leader of a cult, are not mutually exclusive. Jim Jones was the leader of a cult, and as ruthlessly authoritarian as it gets…..

 

[Al-O-Meter]

You wish to debate if something is corrupt or if it’s an element of authoritarianism. Not interested, we’re never going to be on the same page.

It wasn't my intention to debate, only to better understand what you were trying to say. You believe that Trump is a danger that openly disregards the statutory limits on his power. I simply wanted to make sure we weren't talking past each other due to a miscommunication over how each of us differently interprets a word. I now know what you mean by that word and so I know what you mean more broadly.

 

[Deleted member 365]

I think trump and his peeps are more of a cult than authoritarian.


Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

The two don’t have to be mutually exclusive.

The way Trump attacked the media nonstop and calling them the enemy of the people.

The way he and his campaign worked with Russia through various intermediaries like Roger Stone, Manafort, Cohen, Wiki, Flynn, Veselnitskaya, etc through 2016.

The way he fired the FBI director because he wouldn’t back off investigation Michael Flynn and then used the DOJ to squash the Mueller investigation.

The way he obstructed justice during the Mueller investigation by asking WH lawyers to fire Mueller and lie about it, dangle pardons, and continue to communicate to Manafort through Hannity and twitter.

The way he withheld Ukrainian aid for dirt and lied about it.

The way he withheld covid aid to certain states unless they kissed his ring.


The way he gassed his own citizens (Layfette Square) and wanted to shoot BLM.

The way he tried to overthrow the 2020 election by calling up state officials.

The way he abused government to enrich himself, his family, and his businesses.

The way he tried to overthrow the Congress on Jan 6.

All are strong indicators of being an authoritarian. Rarely if ever, does an authoritarian NOT have a strong cult following. Like the mafia, they all “feel” like they’re part of a movement or family.

 

[Red]

Trump’s own party either censures, or removes from positions of power, any Republican who disagrees with their leader’s proclamation that the 2020 election was stolen by Biden and the Democrats. His own party is granting him the power to proclaim a Big Lie as something that all party members must subscribe to as a type of loyalty test. This fact alone points to his position of at least near absolute power within the Republican Party. If one cannot disagree with the leader without risking censure or removal from positions of power within the Party, maybe they are investing Trump with an absurd level of absolute authority within their Party.

 

[Red]

It wasn't my intention to debate, only to better understand what you were trying to say. You believe that Trump is a danger that openly disregards the statutory limits on his power. I simply wanted to make sure we weren't talking past each other due to a miscommunication over how each of us differently interprets a word. I now know what you mean by that word and so I know what you mean more broadly.

This is not a problem, even if I seem impatient at times. You just force me to think, and rethink, and rethink again where I myself am coming from. That is not a bad thing. That is a very good thing, even if it sometimes frustrates me. Anything that forces me to think harder, express myself clearer, etc., is a good thing.