Jazz Offseason Plan

[LoPo]

If we wait 2-3 years to pivot from Rudy, we ain’t getting **** for him.

Which is why I think we do it next summer if this season doesn't work out.

It's crazy how much hinges on Conley. If he leaves for nothing, our title chances take a big hit. Rudy's value to us also takes a hit since we won't have good facilitator on the roster.

Keep Conley, keep everybody but Bojan who we try to turn into younger pieces.
Lose Conley, try our best to build with what we have but possibly pull off a late off-season blockbuster cashing in on Rudy.

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[LoPo]

Philly has no cap room. Chooses how?

Some of these are sign and trade options. This summer will have more sign and trades than probably any summer ever.

Some of the names mentioned...

Lowry
DeRozan
Paul
Conley
Collins
Lonzo
Markkanen
Shroeder




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[Handlogten's Heros]

I completely disagree with the "blow it up" concept. Yes at some point we will pivot from Rudy. Whether that's next summer or in a couple summers, it doesn't matter.

We have Don, Royce, Doke and hopefully #30 who have 5+ years of relevance.

This is why I'm so opposed to going the old *** approach to this off-season. I don't want guys like Rudy Gay or Batum as much as I want guys like Winslow. Or trade for a Kuzma. Or Rozier. Or Lonzo. Or Collins.

We don't have to tear it down. We can actually keep some of the old this off-season but actually make the move to support Don for the long term.

We will tear ourselves down if we just run it back with Conley, Rudy, Bojan, Favors JC and Joe. That is an old crew. Good, but ancient. And most are about to be worthless or bad as a trade asset.

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I just don’t think Donovan will stay for 5-6 more years. We’d need something more than Kyle Kuzma to convince him to stay here. We needed to hit on a pick closer to his draft. The half way builds we have done have led us to have guys who are good now but not completely on the same timeline. To get young now we have to take like two huge steps back… if it fails DM wants out sooner than later.

The goal is not to retain Donovan forever and be the Blazers. The goal is to win a title. The window is cracked open… we need to be opportunistic but if it doesn’t work in the next couple years you trade everything and go full OKC. Hopefully Ryan has the stones for it because the millers never did.

There’s a chance you land some good young player or get a little younger when you trade of Bojan… maybe some team is desperate to make the playoffs and overpays in a trade for Rudy next offseason. Short of hitting a grand slam I just don’t see a move that puts a player good enough to convince him this is the place.

In this NBA the guys go where they want to… if they are going to willfully choose to be here then the case has to be overwhelming. Trading for some of those younger meddling dudes isn’t gonna help… if it makes us worse the next couple years it will actually hurt our case quite a bit. We have to be all in and hope for the best… we have to know when to walk away too… cue the Kenny Rogers music!

 

[Miggs]

I just don’t think Donovan will stay for 5-6 more years. We’d need something more than Kyle Kuzma to convince him to stay here. We needed to hit on a pick closer to his draft. The half way builds we have done have led us to have guys who are good now but not completely on the same timeline. To get young now we have to take like two huge steps back… if it fails DM wants out sooner than later.

The goal is not to retain Donovan forever and be the Blazers. The goal is to win a title. The window is cracked open… we need to be opportunistic but if it doesn’t work in the next couple years you trade everything and go full OKC. Hopefully Ryan has the stones for it because the millers never did.

There’s a chance you land some good young player or get a little younger when you trade of Bojan… maybe some team is desperate to make the playoffs and overpays in a trade for Rudy next offseason. Short of hitting a grand slam I just don’t see a move that puts a player good enough to convince him this is the place.

In this NBA the guys go where they want to… if they are going to willfully choose to be here then the case has to be overwhelming. Trading for some of those younger meddling dudes isn’t gonna help… if it makes us worse the next couple years it will actually hurt our case quite a bit. We have to be all in and hope for the best… we have to know when to walk away too… cue the Kenny Rogers music!

Favors for Lauri and moving down in the draft would be super interesting. The kid has a ton of potential and never really been in a good situation. If we did that, signed Batum or Gay, drafted whoever later in the draft, and either reupped Conley or did some sort of Bogey for Rozier trade, I think we’d have a very good off-season that improves our young talent level in a big way.

 

[homeytennis]

This will put us over the top: "JD Shaw: Kyle Castlin will play summer league with the Jazz, sources tell @HoopsRumors. Castlin played 11 games with the team’s G League affiliate in the 2019-20 season."

 

[LoPo]

I just don’t think Donovan will stay for 5-6 more years. We’d need something more than Kyle Kuzma to convince him to stay here. We needed to hit on a pick closer to his draft. The half way builds we have done have led us to have guys who are good now but not completely on the same timeline. To get young now we have to take like two huge steps back… if it fails DM wants out sooner than later.

The goal is not to retain Donovan forever and be the Blazers. The goal is to win a title. The window is cracked open… we need to be opportunistic but if it doesn’t work in the next couple years you trade everything and go full OKC. Hopefully Ryan has the stones for it because the millers never did.

There’s a chance you land some good young player or get a little younger when you trade of Bojan… maybe some team is desperate to make the playoffs and overpays in a trade for Rudy next offseason. Short of hitting a grand slam I just don’t see a move that puts a player good enough to convince him this is the place.

In this NBA the guys go where they want to… if they are going to willfully choose to be here then the case has to be overwhelming. Trading for some of those younger meddling dudes isn’t gonna help… if it makes us worse the next couple years it will actually hurt our case quite a bit. We have to be all in and hope for the best… we have to know when to walk away too… cue the Kenny Rogers music!

We need youth. It's simple. We need more energy. Our usual operation is to get two stars and add some old vets to the equation. It has never worked. We are afraid of taking a chance on a young guy instead deferring to the old hat.

If we 100% knew we were a favorite this year, we should run it back. I just don't believe that anymore. With our assets, we can't improve our defensive capabilities enough to bridge the gap between us and true contenders.

I think it's a mistake to think Donovan’s entire Jazz career has to be linked to Rudy. There is nothing that Rudy has shown me that he is destined for playoff dominance. He's not gonna have that Giannis moment dominating his way to a title for us.

Don isn't even in his prime. Age wise, we have to start thinking next 5-8 years instead of just next 2-3 max. We can have both.

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[oneye]

Not sure what to believe...Locke's saying we're all in for the next 3 years and Tony Jones makes it sound like we're all in next year and if we don't make it to the finals much of the roster is going to be gone and we could take a step back. I'm not sure how long Smith is going to be willing to pay the tax, especially the repeater tax.

I feel like since Smith bought the teams “sources” have gotten even harder to come by for local media. Yeah Locke keeps saying this roster as constructed has a 3 year window, and Tony keeps saying it has a 1 year win down before major changes are made. I tend to agree with Tony. Smiths tax bill will be a $70+ million check before the season starts and will have to be paid in full. Next season if we are still in the tax he’d have to pay the repeater tax which adds another dollar per dollar you’re over the tax line. Smith would end up cutting like a $100 million dollar check next season. I think Tony will end up being right, if the team under-performs or gets anything but a finals appearance this season, major changes are coming. There’s no way Smith is going to pay an average of $100 million a year just in a tax bill over the next 3.

 

[Miggs]

We need youth. It's simple. We need more energy. Our usual operation is to get two stars and add some old vets to the equation. It has never worked. We are afraid of taking a chance on a young guy instead deferring to the old hat.

If we 100% knew we were a favorite this year, we should run it back. I just don't believe that anymore. With our assets, we can't improve our defensive capabilities enough to bridge the gap between us and true contenders.

I think it's a mistake to think Donovan’s entire Jazz career has to be linked to Rudy. There is nothing that Rudy has shown me that he is destined for playoff dominance. He's not gonna have that Giannis moment dominating his way to a title for us.

Don isn't even in his prime. Age wise, we have to start thinking next 5-8 years instead of just next 2-3 max. We can have both.

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Agreed about Rudy. To pretend like us losing him is losing any hope at a ring is silly too. Centers basically aren’t important. Here are the starting centers on our recent championship teams.

*Brooke Lopez
*Javale McGee (Davis played more than him but is an infinitely superior player to Rudy)
*(Not close to prime) Marc Gasol
*Zaza Pachulia (Looney, McGee, Draymond as well)

None of these guys were close to great. They were capable of solid defense and actually all had very strong defensive players at the 4 (Giannis, Lebron, Kawhi/Siakam, Draymond) as well as most other positions.

I know it’s sacrilege but if we did Rudy for Rozier, Bridges, Washington, their 1st, a 2023 1st and something else, I think we make out in the long run. We save a **** load of money the next two years, get young talent in those three, get more assets and young talent with their 1sts, and can then do something like Bogey for whoever. Become just way more well-rounded.

That or Don needs to stay healthy and start playing legitimate high end defense and we hope Bogey and Co do too.


I

 

[oneye]

We need youth. It's simple. We need more energy. Our usual operation is to get two stars and add some old vets to the equation. It has never worked. We are afraid of taking a chance on a young guy instead deferring to the old hat.

If we 100% knew we were a favorite this year, we should run it back. I just don't believe that anymore. With our assets, we can't improve our defensive capabilities enough to bridge the gap between us and true contenders.

I think it's a mistake to think Donovan’s entire Jazz career has to be linked to Rudy. There is nothing that Rudy has shown me that he is destined for playoff dominance. He's not gonna have that Giannis moment dominating his way to a title for us.

Don isn't even in his prime. Age wise, we have to start thinking next 5-8 years instead of just next 2-3 max. We can have both.

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The youth thing is probably less true than some of us think. Locke made a good point in, who is young on the Bucks? Giannis is 26, but the rest of that roster is pretty old. Mainly because stars and veteran, not youth, wins in the postseason for the most part. Most rosters trying to contend are actually rarely young, or getting any meaningful play from young guys when it matters. Stars and vets win.

 

[LoPo]

The youth thing is probably less true than some of us think. Locke made a good point in, who is young on the Bucks? Giannis is 26, but the rest of that roster is pretty old. Mainly because stars and veteran, not youth, wins in the postseason for the most part. Most rosters trying to contend are actually rarely young, or getting any meaningful play from young guys when it matters. Stars and vets win.

The Bucks are an older team true, but everybody is a defender. The entire group that played meaningful minutes defended well.

Portis, Pat C, and Giannis aren't old, but yes, they are an older lineup. I just think the focus is different.

We have two defenders on the entire roster with Royce and Rudy. That's crazy.

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[Handlogten's Heros]

We need youth. It's simple. We need more energy. Our usual operation is to get two stars and add some old vets to the equation. It has never worked. We are afraid of taking a chance on a young guy instead deferring to the old hat.

If we 100% knew we were a favorite this year, we should run it back. I just don't believe that anymore. With our assets, we can't improve our defensive capabilities enough to bridge the gap between us and true contenders.

I think it's a mistake to think Donovan’s entire Jazz career has to be linked to Rudy. There is nothing that Rudy has shown me that he is destined for playoff dominance. He's not gonna have that Giannis moment dominating his way to a title for us.

Don isn't even in his prime. Age wise, we have to start thinking next 5-8 years instead of just next 2-3 max. We can have both.

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It isn’t simple at all. Saying we need youth is great that is simple… getting that youth is hard AF… literally the hardest thing to do is find young talent. It’s like saying it’s simple to solve money problems… just need a billion dollars. Great now how do we get it.

Only way for us to do it is get monumentally lucky with #30… or sell off our win now parts for guys that may be good in a year or two. We won’t get blue chip young talent with Bogey or Joe or Mike. Our best option is to play it out with the hand we’ve been dealt… hope you nail a first or second rounder but it’s likely it doesn’t work… unless you have THE dominant guy in the league most things are destined for failure. In three years if we don’t have a lot of hope… be honest with ourselves and tear it down. Donovan is already grumpy and we have the best record in the league… what happens when we trade our good players for mediocre ones that are younger and we get the 8 seed? He asks out next year instead of three years from now.

If a great deal comes up for Rudy this season or next offseason that allows you to pair Donovan with a great talent that is closer to his age then go for it. As of right now… the window is 2-3 years and then reset.

 

[LoPo]

Agreed about Rudy. To pretend like us losing him is losing any hope at a ring is silly too. Centers basically aren’t important. Here are the starting centers on our recent championship teams.

*Brooke Lopez
*Javale McGee (Davis played more than him but is an infinitely superior player to Rudy)
*(Not close to prime) Marc Gasol
*Zaza Pachulia (Looney, McGee, Draymond as well)

None of these guys were close to great. They were capable of solid defense and actually all had very strong defensive players at the 4 (Giannis, Lebron, Kawhi/Siakam, Draymond) as well as most other positions.

I know it’s sacrilege but if we did Rudy for Rozier, Bridges, Washington, their 1st, a 2023 1st and something else, I think we make out in the long run. We save a **** load of money the next two years, get young talent in those three, get more assets and young talent with their 1sts, and can then do something like Bogey for whoever. Become just way more well-rounded.

That or Don needs to stay healthy and start playing legitimate high end defense and we hope Bogey and Co do too.


I

If Conley bails, I'm advocating for something like this.

If Joe retires next summer, we have max space to make a run at a different vision.

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