Trade deadline discussion

[jom2003]

i'd take a gamble on Cam Reddish realizing his full potential. The kid clearly doesn't wanna be in Atlanta no more.
He's basically Jaylen Brown when he goes off. But these kind of nights are few and far between. If he can do it consistently he'd be a game changer.




Since we can't afford the real Jaylen Brown

 

[Hearsky]

i'd take a gamble on Cam Reddish realizing his full potential. The kid clearly doesn't wanna be in Atlanta no more.
He's basically Jaylen Brown when he goes off. But these kind of nights are few and far between. If he can do it consistently he'd be a game changer.

I want to like the idea of Cam Reddish, but his 238 out of 250 Raptor rating isn't too sexy.

The Best NBA Players, According To RAPTOR

Our ratings use play-by-play and player-tracking data to calculate the value of every player in the NBA, updated daily.

projects.fivethirtyeight.com

 

[Jingled]

Not sure I trust this guy in the playoffs.

 

[LogGrad98]

I want to like the idea of Cam Reddish, but his 238 out of 250 Raptor rating isn't too sexy.

The Best NBA Players, According To RAPTOR

Our ratings use play-by-play and player-tracking data to calculate the value of every player in the NBA, updated daily.

projects.fivethirtyeight.com

Donovan Mitchell as a plus offensive player and solidly negative defensive player. Compared to shooting guards.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

BTW, Danuel House's perimeter defense is probably as good as Royce's. Royce is a better defender guarding strong forwards down on the block though.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Donovan Mitchell as a plus offensive player and solidly negative. Compared to shooting guards.

View attachment 11550

If this is going to work, Donovan needs to be the only negative defender on the floor. This is a challenge though because Bogi and Mike are treading water in a lot of their matchups.

The lineups with Donovan and Clarkson on the floor together may be a lost cause defensively.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

If we look at the Houston Rockets as an example, their backcourt with Harden and Chris Paul worked okay defensively because the other players on the floor were Trevor Ariza, PJ Tucker and Clint Capella. Then they brought in Eric Gordon, who is a defensive thug. Chris Paul is also a tough defender who guards a bit above his weight class.

Using that model, the Jazz have defensively downgraded Eric Gordon to Jordan Clarkson, and we've downgraded Trevor Ariza to Bojan Bogdanovic. We're also treating Royce like he's PJ Tucker when he's really more like Gerald Green.

In order to have a strong team defense, we really can't have more than 1 non-defender on the floor at any time. Even the Brooklyn Nets, who have KD and either Kyrie or James Harden on the floor, are losing games because they've got too many holes on defense.

 

[LogGrad98]

If this is going to work, Donovan needs to be the only negative defender on the floor. This is a challenge though because Bogi and Mike are treading water in a lot of their matchups.

The lineups with Donovan and Clarkson on the floor together may be a lost cause defensively.

According to the RAPTOR rating, Mitchell is a worse defender than Clarkson and Bogey.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Brown is pie in the sky thinking... unless you include Rudy or Donovan.

Yup, probably no way you get Brown unless you deal Mitchell or Gobert.

Dealing Gobert for Brown doesnt do much for us as we would have a gaping hole at center.

Donovan for Brown is a smart move IMO, but I probably wouldn't do it mid-season. In general Im against making big mid-season movies as a principal unless it's truly too good of an offer to pass up.

Donovan has shown ability to be a top tier stat producer in the playoffs. Best case scenario (in a non-championship win scenario) is Mitchell has another heroic playoff stats performances, gets the Jazz to a solid 2nd round performance or even Conference FInals, then Ainge is able to pull off the ballsiest move in franchise history and trade a star at the peak of his powers for a more well-rounded star and well rounded support pieces.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

If we look at the Houston Rockets as an example, their backcourt with Harden and Chris Paul worked okay defensively because the other players on the floor were Trevor Ariza, PJ Tucker and Clint Capella. Then they brought in Eric Gordon, who is a defensive thug. Chris Paul is also a tough defender who guards a bit above his weight class.

Using that model, the Jazz have defensively downgraded Eric Gordon to Jordan Clarkson, and we've downgraded Trevor Ariza to Bojan Bogdanovic. We're also treating Royce like he's PJ Tucker when he's really more like Gerald Green.

In order to have a strong team defense, we really can't have more than 1 non-defender on the floor at any time.

Eric Gordon a defensive thug? Since when?

And James Harden was a good switch defender. That's why it worked. Because bigs couldnt abuse him in the post because of his elite strength. James Harden is probably the most over-critiqued defensive player in NBA history because of a few lowlight compilations. James Harden absolutely washes MItchell when it comes to defense because of his strength and quick hands.

 

[slc]

Seems like Ainge was brought in now to do something before the trade deadline
He is on Jazz payroll now

 

[LogGrad98]

Eric Gordon a defensive thug? Since when?

And James Harden was a good switch defender. That's why it worked. Because bigs couldnt abuse him in the post because of his elite strength. James Harden is probably the most over-critiqued defensive player in NBA history because of a few lowlight compilations. James Harden absolutely washes MItchell when it comes to defense because of his strength and quick hands.

According to the RAPTOR that was posted earlier, Gordon is worse than DM defensively, but only by a little. Harden is marginally better than Mitchell, but still a net negative on defense.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Royce is way too disrespected on here constantly. Yes, he's not a lockdown defender. HE's still a great defender and one of the more versatile defenders in the NBA.

He isnt Gerald ****ing Green.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

According to the RAPTOR that was posted earlier, Gordon is worse than DM defensively, but only by a little. Harden is marginally better than Mitchell, but still a net negative on defense.

I'm talking about Eric Gordon 3 or 4 years ago when he played against us.

 

[jom2003]

I want to like the idea of Cam Reddish, but his 238 out of 250 Raptor rating isn't too sexy.

The Best NBA Players, According To RAPTOR

Our ratings use play-by-play and player-tracking data to calculate the value of every player in the NBA, updated daily.

projects.fivethirtyeight.com

Bojan is ranked 158th......worse than Jingles. I'd say every stat has flaws. But I tend to agree that the idea of Cam right now is better than the player himself. he's also been buried in a bad situation and could not see any consistent floor time. the risk is clearly there. so is upside

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

According to the RAPTOR that was posted earlier, Gordon is worse than DM defensively, but only by a little. Harden is marginally better than Mitchell, but still a net negative on defense.

In his best days with Houston he was a +1 to a +2 RAPTOR on defense.

I dont watch BRooklyn so I have no idea what kind of scheme they play. Harden excelled in the switch heavy scheme because a lot of players/teams had false realities about his defensive ability.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I'm talking about Eric Gordon 3 or 4 years ago when he played against us.

He was still decidedly negative in most defensive metrics.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Bojan is ranked 158th......worse than Jingles. I'd say every stat has flaws. But I tend to agree that the idea of Cam right now is better than the player himself. he's also been buried in a bad situation and could not see any consistent floor time. the risk is clearly there. so is upside

Cam Reddish is erratic offensively and he makes some low-IQ decisions. In that sense, he's like Clarkson. However, he's also got elite measurables, which really translate to the defensive end. So even when he's stinking offensively, he doesn't outright kill the defense. He has flashes where he looks like a middling version of Paul George, but he's just been frustratingly inconsistent.

Another guy I could see the Jazz asking about is Delon Wright. Wright could take some of Clarkson's and Forrest's minutes.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Bojan is ranked 158th......worse than Jingles. I'd say every stat has flaws. But I tend to agree that the idea of Cam right now is better than the player himself. he's also been buried in a bad situation and could not see any consistent floor time. the risk is clearly there. so is upside

Yeah, because Bojan is clearly worse on D than Ingles.

Do you not watch Jazz basketball? I know Ingles has effort lowlights where his age shows, but he still makes way smarter defensive rotations and plays than Bojan does 75% of the time.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Yeah, because Bojan is clearly worse on D than Ingles.

Do you not watch Jazz basketball? I know Ingles has effort lowlights where his age shows, but he still makes way smarter defensive rotations and plays than Bojan does 75% of the time.

Ingles has remarkably good instincts and timing when he's able to apply them. It comes from having real ball skills.