I Don't Blame The Players

[reignman40]

Quin doesn't seem to be able to run any scheme outside of offensively limited big men. We have literally hitched everything to a system around Gobert, Favors, Whiteside, Ed Davis, Dok, etc. That's not the modern NBA. Some is fine, but Quin insists on running it all the time.

I think he might have to go too. Not enough flexibility. Doesn't give the youth a chance either so I'm concerned about a rebuild with him in charge.

Holy cow, I forgot all about Ed Davis. I remember liking that pickup and talking about him with a co-worker. I swear the 2019-2020 season is the forgotten season. I was in school from January to March and got done a few days after they put the kibosh on the season. So I hardly such many Jazz games after December.

2020 bubble was bleh to me, just seemed like a cheesy tournament. I forgot about losing to Denver within days and was ready for 2021 season to start.
2021 Playoffs, Conley and DM were injured.
2022, now we have problems and Conley is washed, apparently... So we never got to see the full scope of the Conley era in the playoffs.

 

[sip]

As fans, we always have a propensity to blame management and coaching. The reality is that there is plenty of blame to go around. Without question we have a collection of very good players that should be performing better. It's hard for me to blame management when they were able to draft and develop both Rudy and Donovan. Most teams over a ten year span are lucky to draft one guy at that level. We drafted two. All the other ancillary moves didn't get the job done, but again, management gets an "A" simply for landing those guys in the draft. I'm not sure anyone could have done better with the secondary moves, it's all hypothetical anyways. As a fanbase, most of us were stoked to land Bogey, Conley, etc. When your two best players hate each other (apparently), it's hard to overcome the chemistry issues that creates (unless your Kobe and Shaq).

Blame it on Quinn? Maybe. It's possible he's just better suited as a coach that is great for young players, implementing a system to help them find NBA success. Hard to judge, but he definetly has been outcoached in the playoffs for two consecutive years.

I think we have two options. Do a "half" blow-up by trading Gobert, Conley, Bogey, and any piece that makes sense with the exception of Donovan. Move Donovan to PG full time, and build a balanced team around him (mulit-dimensional players). This option might need to include a coaching change. The other option is just to blow everythign up, and plan on sucking for at least the next few seasons.

This myth that Quin is great for young players need to die. He is a terrible development coach. In fact it is the polar opposite. He is so stubborn with his rotations that he completely wastes opportunities to give players more than a couple garbage time minutes to develop. How many times over last 2 years were we either blowing a team out or getting blown out and he has most of the starters in with 6 minutes left. I'm guessing probably 40 to 50 times. Then when he does give them minutes it is always garbage time when he just throws everyone in. The best way to actually develop guys is to let them play with the core group of guys. Let Butler come in and play with the starters so that he can come in and focus on the little things while gaining experience.

 

[Agent#00]

maybe that's the reason why we didn't made a splash trade this season? FO already know this won't cut it. we ride this current lineup and pick the ones we can keep next year. I see major overhaul coming.

 

[sip]

maybe that's the reason why we didn't made a splash trade this season? FO already know this won't cut it. we ride this current lineup and pick the ones we can keep next year. I see major overhaul coming.

The problem now is that guys have looked so bad that they have lost significant trade value. Conley at mid season was an actual asset that could have brought something back. Now he is likely viewed as a negative asset. There isn't a single contending team that would view him as an upgrade as a starting pg and he costs a fortune to be a backup. Someone mentioned that the 3rd year on his contract is partially guaranteed. Does anyone know what that number is? You look down our roster and suddenly players either have no trade value or have lost a significant amount of trade value in Mitchell and Gobert. That is one of the reason why I think may end up bringing most of this core back simply because we can't get rid of them. No one is going to want Royce, Conley or Gay with what they are being paid. Bogey probably has some value. Clarkson we can probably salary dump but I doubt anyone gives us much of an asset back for him. The best move may be to roll it back and try to regain trade value but the issue there is that if we are winning then gm's and owners never have the balls to sell high.

 

[LoPo]

The problem now is that guys have looked so bad that they have lost significant trade value. Conley at mid season was an actual asset that could have brought something back. Now he is likely viewed as a negative asset. There isn't a single contending team that would view him as an upgrade as a starting pg and he costs a fortune to be a backup. Someone mentioned that the 3rd year on his contract is partially guaranteed. Does anyone know what that number is? You look down our roster and suddenly players either have no trade value or have lost a significant amount of trade value in Mitchell and Gobert. That is one of the reason why I think may end up bringing most of this core back simply because we can't get rid of them. No one is going to want Royce, Conley or Gay with what they are being paid. Bogey probably has some value. Clarkson we can probably salary dump but I doubt anyone gives us much of an asset back for him. The best move may be to roll it back and try to regain trade value but the issue there is that if we are winning then gm's and owners never have the balls to sell high.

Don - we only trade him if he wants to go

Rudy - we only trade him if we get a good deal and/or Rudy wants to go/split with Don/ etc.

Conley- should be traded unless he has negative trade value

Bojan - has value and should probably be traded so we can improve defense and/or athleticism

Clarkson- should only be traded if we go complete rebuild

Royce - bad value - should only be traded if we go complete rebuild

Juancho - keep. Seems like a solid player.

Rudy Gay - take anything expiring for him. Don't dump an asset to trade



Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[vegas]

IMHO a big flaw was rewarding mediocrity in the name of culture.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[utahjazzz]

Yep, don't blame the players, blame the clueless coach.

 

[homeytennis]

At some point people might actually realize that trade was 1000% about money and NAW would be offloaded for no returning salary if we could. NAW was never really someone they actually wanted.

Which is sad.

 

[Gameface]

Don't blame the player, blame the game.

 

[jom2003]

The problem now is that guys have looked so bad that they have lost significant trade value. Conley at mid season was an actual asset that could have brought something back. Now he is likely viewed as a negative asset. There isn't a single contending team that would view him as an upgrade as a starting pg and he costs a fortune to be a backup. Someone mentioned that the 3rd year on his contract is partially guaranteed. Does anyone know what that number is? You look down our roster and suddenly players either have no trade value or have lost a significant amount of trade value in Mitchell and Gobert. That is one of the reason why I think may end up bringing most of this core back simply because we can't get rid of them. No one is going to want Royce, Conley or Gay with what they are being paid. Bogey probably has some value. Clarkson we can probably salary dump but I doubt anyone gives us much of an asset back for him. The best move may be to roll it back and try to regain trade value but the issue there is that if we are winning then gm's and owners never have the balls to sell high.

like it's scary for those who actually believe that we have a competitive squad for championship contention.

the harsh reality is that next season this same group of players will probably be fighting for a play-in spot next season or missing the postseason entirely.

Minny's gonna get better. NOLA's gonna get better. Clippers' gonna get healthy. Denver's gonna get healthy. These things are all gonna happen while we getting older and worse.

Even now none of our staters besides Rudy/DM can guarantee themselves a starting spot on most of the playoff teams. We are basically starting guys who otherwise would've been bench players on top level teams(Royce/Conley/Bogey) and our bench players are filled with rejects from other teams(House/Juancho/NAW/Paschall/Whiteside).

So our guys don't have much of trade value because of their contracts. Yes. But that's only 50% true. The other 50% being our guys just aren't that good to begin with. Like getting walked all over by Jalen ****ing Brunson, that shouldn't happen to a real playoff team with real playoff players. it's more obvious if you just watch any of the 7 other playoff series and see how their players play defense. the talent gap is just too much.

 

[FrenchJazzFa]

Just a stupid question? What if we change only the coach? Can this team perform with a good coach? I still thinking that this team have great talent, just the conductor is bad.... with a different routine, mental preparation, maybe it could work?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

It's insane how much Lopo moved the goal post on his overall views this year. He went from "only the playoffs matter and I judge players based on that" to "I dont blame the players for sucking in the post-season" just because his boi Donnie having it rough.

It's so rich