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KqWIN said:
I always believe the Bucks will win no matter the situation, and when they lose or get behind, I still believe in them. Opposite of the Jazz where I believe they will find a way to lose no matter the situation.
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My motto for the Jazz this season was “Finding New and Dumb Ways to Lose”. It was a comedy of errors.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I think if we knew he was going to become available we may have been more patient but yeah… it sucks.
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I want to say that the time to get him was instead of George Hill. Back when we had the old FO and Locke would leak everything draft related he implied that we were going to trade our pick and said only two players fit what we needed, and those two were George Hill and Jrue Holiday. Hindsight 20/20, but it would have been amazing to get Jrue instead of the revolving door of PG's. Even if Jrue wasn't available when we went all in on Conley, we probably should have thought about the implications of having two 6'1 guards with rapidly declining defense. Really would have brought a new perspective to, "it's Mike **** ing Conley".

Obviously I think Jrue is great on his own, but I really respect the mentality that MIL had. There were a lot of people questioning that trade and thinking it could have been a disaster. They knew their window was Giannis and didn't care about the future. I think their aggressiveness to win now has given them an advantage over other contenders who are more hesitant to give up future assets when it's their time to win.
 
KqWIN said:
I want to say that the time to get him was instead of George Hill. Back when we had the old FO and Locke would leak everything draft related he implied that we were going to trade our pick and said only two players fit what we needed, and those two were George Hill and Jrue Holiday. Hindsight 20/20, but it would have been amazing to get Jrue instead of the revolving door of PG's. Even if Jrue wasn't available when we went all in on Conley, we probably should have thought about the implications of having two 6'1 guards with rapidly declining defense. Really would have brought a new perspective to, "it's Mike **** ing Conley".

Obviously I think Jrue is great on his own, but I really respect the mentality that MIL had. There were a lot of people questioning that trade and thinking it could have been a disaster. They knew their window was Giannis and didn't care about the future. I think their aggressiveness to win now has given them an advantage over other contenders who are more hesitant to give up future assets when it's their time to win.
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But there is immense importance of knowing when it’s one’s time to win.

The Jazz blew their wad on old dudes that didn’t perfectly complement their flawed stars. Although I have to say I’m probably less upset about Conley and Bojan than I am about Bradley, Doke, the incredible Favors debacle, and the army of 2nd rounders.

I can respect spending assets to improve the team, I cannot respect pissing them away.
 
NUMBERICA said:
But there is immense importance of knowing when it’s one’s time to win.

The Jazz blew their wad on old dudes that didn’t perfectly complement their flawed stars. Although I have to say I’m probably less upset about Conley and Bojan than I am about Bradley, Doke, the incredible Favors debacle, and the army of 2nd rounders.

I can respect spending assets to improve the team, I cannot respect pissing them away.
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This… miscalculations that had an okay process and logic are excusable… the others are just dumb ****.
 
NUMBERICA said:
But there is immense importance of knowing when it’s one’s time to win.

The Jazz blew their wad on old dudes that didn’t perfectly complement their flawed stars. Although I have to say I’m probably less upset about Conley and Bojan than I am about Bradley, Doke, the incredible Favors debacle, and the army of 2nd rounders.

I can respect spending assets to improve the team, I cannot respect pissing them away.
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Exactly. People typically use desperation as a pejorative when describing FO’s, but desperate accurately describes the MIL FO decision. They shelled out everything for Jrue and have a massive payroll. They knew it was their time and they went for it. Fans are willing to tank for years for the hope, not guarantee, of competing for a championship. I don’t see why there’s so much hesitation to trade some of the future away when you’re already in that position to win a ring. Desperation is bad when you’re trying to make it into a last playoff spot. But it’s a huge advantage if you’re a contender and willing to pony up for a better shot at the title.

I didn’t really like the Conley move, but I understood the need to make a move at that time. Wrong guy…but right mentality. Same goes for Bogey, who was a good signing in a vacuum but also left some massive holes on our roster.

The draft stuff…some of the process was horrible. I think it was terrible to draft Udoka, but I’m not one to use hindsight and say they should have drafted this exact player that happened to be better. Anyone but Doke would have been more respectable.

The trio of awful MLE signings….Davis, Favors , Gay were all truly horrendous but appeared to be decent moves when they signed. They just missed terribly and Ryan’s pockets were more important than keeping our draft picks.

So when you look at allthat, I do think there were some good intentions and mostly good process behind the decisions even if the results were mostly bad and often horrendous. What’s completely unforgivable to me is that this FO didn’t even attempt to address the obvious playoff issues. If they had just rearranged the pieces a bit around Don+Gobert I think we’d be in a much different spot. Their inaction squandered our window and shortened it.

They didn’t have the same desperation that the Bucks had. The Jazz had their window and decided to sit on their hands the whole time. It was a huge competitive advantage for MIL to actually go for the title and build a better team. Before they won, MIL was considered a playoff pretender. Difference between them and the Jazz is the that the Bucks made the necessary moves to change that.
 
KqWIN said:
Exactly. People typically use desperation as a pejorative when describing FO’s, but desperate accurately describes the MIL FO decision. They shelled out everything for Jrue and have a massive payroll. They knew it was their time and they went for it. Fans are willing to tank for years for the hope, not guarantee, of competing for a championship. I don’t see why there’s so much hesitation to trade some of the future away when you’re already in that position to win a ring. Desperation is bad when you’re trying to make it into a last playoff spot. But it’s a huge advantage if you’re a contender and willing to pony up for a better shot at the title.

I didn’t really like the Conley move, but I understood the need to make a move at that time. Wrong guy…but right mentality. Same goes for Bogey, who was a good signing in a vacuum but also left some massive holes on our roster.

The draft stuff…some of the process was horrible. I think it was terrible to draft Udoka, but I’m not one to use hindsight and say they should have drafted this exact player that happened to be better. Anyone but Doke would have been more respectable.

The trio of awful MLE signings….Davis, Favors , Gay were all truly horrendous but appeared to be decent moves when they signed. They just missed terribly and Ryan’s pockets were more important than keeping our draft picks.

So when you look at allthat, I do think there were some good intentions and mostly good process behind the decisions even if the results were mostly bad and often horrendous. What’s completely unforgivable to me is that this FO didn’t even attempt to address the obvious playoff issues. If they had just rearranged the pieces a bit around Don+Gobert I think we’d be in a much different spot. Their inaction squandered our window and shortened it.

They didn’t have the same desperation that the Bucks had. The Jazz had their window and decided to sit on their hands the whole time. It was a huge competitive advantage for MIL to actually go for the title and build a better team. Before they won, MIL was considered a playoff pretender. Difference between them and the Jazz is the that the Bucks made the necessary moves to change that.
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See, I don't think the Jazz ever actually had a window of contention. Gobert can't score. Mitchell either can't defend or chooses not to defend. You can't build a championship team with that.

Also, I think Dennis Lindsey actually thought that Gordon Hayward would re-sign with the Jazz. When it didn't happen, the Jazz were stuck. They lost an All Star and got zero compensation in return. A team like the Jazz can't afford to make a mistake like that.

A team with Mitchell, Hayward and Gobert, flanked by Ingles, Favors, etc. could contend. But when the Jazz lost Hayward, they really lost their chance. Conley, Bogdanovic and Clarkson are decent complementary pieces, but the core of the team is simply flawed right now.
 
KqWIN said:
I want to say that the time to get him was instead of George Hill. Back when we had the old FO and Locke would leak everything draft related he implied that we were going to trade our pick and said only two players fit what we needed, and those two were George Hill and Jrue Holiday. Hindsight 20/20, but it would have been amazing to get Jrue instead of the revolving door of PG's. Even if Jrue wasn't available when we went all in on Conley, we probably should have thought about the implications of having two 6'1 guards with rapidly declining defense. Really would have brought a new perspective to, "it's Mike **** ing Conley".

Obviously I think Jrue is great on his own, but I really respect the mentality that MIL had. There were a lot of people questioning that trade and thinking it could have been a disaster. They knew their window was Giannis and didn't care about the future. I think their aggressiveness to win now has given them an advantage over other contenders who are more hesitant to give up future assets when it's their time to win.
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Did we know that DM's defense was going to decline so rapidly? He seems to get worse by the game. I mean, I get that having two 6'1 guards is generally stupid, but I don't think anyone envisioned DM turning to complete **** defensively. I think that needs to be factored into the hindsight 20/20 equatiion.
 
Hearsky said:
Did we know that DM's defense was going to decline so rapidly? He seems to get worse by the game. I mean, I get that having two 6'1 guards is generally stupid, but I don't think anyone envisioned DM turning to complete **** defensively. I think that needs to be factored into the hindsight 20/20 equatiion.
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I think the fact that Donovan is being asked to run Quin's system as the primary ball handler, plus be the Jazz's primary scorer whom defenses key in on, is just too taxing. It's too much to ask. I can understand Mitchell's frustration to be honest. This is what James Harden ran into in Houston before Houston brought in Chris Paul.
 
Grear game for the grizz tonight. Those kids are incredible. Playing with so much intensity. This year jazz was so far from them in term of commitment. Talent are almost the same ( Ja is bettr thand Don but Rudy is better than their second best player) but the difference is the heart they put in.
 
Jrue can be great because he plays with the best player in the NBA. If they had Mike Conley, Mike Conley game would be elevated. Jrue has had an insane number of terrible offensive games for the bucks the last two years that would kill the Jazz, but he plays with a GOAT team so it covers up his weaknesses.

The Jrue/Mike difference isn't that great. It's the Rudy/Donovan vs Giannis difference.
 
FrenchJazzFa said:
Grear game for the grizz tonight. Those kids are incredible. Playing with so much intensity. This year jazz was so far from them in term of commitment. Talent are almost the same ( Ja is bettr thand Don but Rudy is better than their second best player) but the difference is the heart they put in.
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Ja isn't that good.

There's this weird allure with high offense, no defense small guards like Don/Ja/Trae. Ultimately all those teams would be better if they traded their stars imo.
 
Jrue can have playoff shooting percentages in series like 36 from the field and 27% from 3 and averages more shots that points because he plays with an all-time great.

I would love to have him, but I also don't think Utah could overcome his bad shooting games the way the Bucks can. If the Jazz had Jrue, we would still have extremely leaky defense because of weak links like Mitchell and Clarkson.

Moral of the Post: Competing in the NBA at the highest level is extremely hard if you don't have a top 5 player or multiple top 10 players.

Currently the Jazz don't even have a top 20 player.
 
I could see the Sixers making some big moves. Obvious that Embiid and Harden aren’t clicking.
 
Avery said:
I could see the Sixers making some big moves. Obvious that Embiid and Harden aren’t clicking.
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I’m not sure what they do. Harden looks washed… I’d be terrified to sign that contract this summer.

Also wild they lost to the guy they had and chose BS over… they could have traded Ben for a haul and rolled with Jimmy and Embiid. Yowza.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I’m not sure what they do. Harden looks washed… I’d be terrified to sign that contract this summer.

Also wild they lost to the guy they had and chose BS over… they could have traded Ben for a haul and rolled with Jimmy and Embiid. Yowza.
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Yup, just goes to show you the young/potential option is not always the best.
 
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