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Trade Rumors Involving the Jazz

stitches said:
I would advise people against making statements like "elite centers don't win in the NBA". One of my first threads in this forum was how elite PGs(if not mistaken I counted elite as the All-stars or all NBA PGs that year) are not winning NBA championships and at the time I had a very good track record to support my assertion. The problem - since then, Steph Curry has won 4, Kyrie hit a championship winner, Lowry was one of the key players on a championship team, Jrue won.

Point is - the tides change in the league and sometimes going against the grain is actually a good way to find value and counter established norms. Also, it shows how random the league can be in regard to team building of championship teams.
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Curry is really the only small guard that has been the best player on a championship team in decades, lol.
 
YoungJefe said:
Curry is really the only small guard that has been the best player on a championship team in decades, lol.
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True.

I don't think the argument against Rudy is that a center can't be the best player on a team that wins a title.

The argument against Rudy is that only elite centers on BOTH sides of the court are worth the kind of money he's making. Centers as limited as Rudy Gobert paid like Rudy is have never led teams to title contention unless you consider Bill Russell that type of player. And when did he play again? The only time a center like Rudy helped take his team far is Mutombo, but we all know Iverson was driving that bus.
 
YoungJefe said:
Curry is really the only small guard that has been the best player on a championship team in decades, lol.
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Yup, and 3 of those 4 rings have come when he's been on teams with 3 or more HOF'ers.

(and yes, Wiggins will make it fairly easily if he keeps his career going like it has been into his early 30's)
 
stitches said:
I would advise people against making statements like "elite centers don't win in the NBA". One of my first threads in this forum was how elite PGs(if not mistaken I counted elite as the All-stars or all NBA PGs that year) are not winning NBA championships and at the time I had a very good track record to support my assertion. The problem - since then, Steph Curry has won 4, Kyrie hit a championship winner, Lowry was one of the key players on a championship team, Jrue won.

Point is - the tides change in the league and sometimes going against the grain is actually a good way to find value and counter established norms. Also, it shows how random the league can be in regard to team building of championship teams.
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No bro. Outcomes don’t give rise to trends. It’s recent trends that dictate future outcomes.
 
I really wish we wouldn't have given up this 2022 1st rounder to Memphis to get Mike Conley. Such a stupid freaking trade. It would have been so much less stupid if it didn't include 2 first round picks.

But back to today - I want us to add John Collins in the worst way. I don't know how we do it - Conley, Bojan, whatever, but I want it to happen.
 
infection said:
No bro. Outcomes don’t give rise to trends. It’s recent trends that dictate future outcomes.
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My point is - you don't know what the next trend will be and what the outcomes will be. At the time I was arguing about not investing tons in the PG position, because the trends at the time were that the elite PGs were not winning. In hindsight that looks silly and not very predictive of what was about to happen in the next 6-7-8 years...
 
LoPo said:
I really wish we wouldn't have given up this 2022 1st rounder to Memphis to get Mike Conley. Such a stupid freaking trade. It would have been so much less stupid if it didn't include 2 first round picks.

But back to today - I want us to add John Collins in the worst way. I don't know how we do it - Conley, Bojan, whatever, but I want it to happen.
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The Favors deal is actually the worst trade we’ve done. The Conley deal isn’t that bad in hindsight. The Favors deal is inexcusable.
 
LoPo said:
Trash? Hell no.

Overrated around here? No doubt. He ain't a top 15 player in the NBA unless you think the regular season matters more than the playoffs.
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You sent a multiple all nba’r and 3 time dpoy without being a top 15 player but if you’re an elite rim protector and play next to turnstiles, then yes, you will be less affective in the playoffs. So look at everyone else next to Rudy. Any way you slice it he’s a top 15 player.
 
Thee Idiotic Minivan K said:
You sent a multiple all nba’r and 3 time dpoy without being a top 15 player but if you’re an elite rim protector and play next to turnstiles, then yes, you will be less affective in the playoffs. So look at everyone else next to Rudy. Any way you slice it he’s a top 15 player.
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A top 15 player should have the ability to win you a series if Rudy's defense is only as good as the pieces around him does it really matter?
 
LoPo said:
True.

I don't think the argument against Rudy is that a center can't be the best player on a team that wins a title.

The argument against Rudy is that only elite centers on BOTH sides of the court are worth the kind of money he's making. Centers as limited as Rudy Gobert paid like Rudy is have never led teams to title contention unless you consider Bill Russell that type of player. And when did he play again? The only time a center like Rudy helped take his team far is Mutombo, but we all know Iverson was driving that bus.
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This gives a limited definition of being a two-way player. Rudy is elite offensively, it’s just that it’s not the way you’re traditionally used to. He’s not Mutombo on offense. He’s not Samuel Dalembert. He’s not Ben Wallace. It’s like saying a guy isn’t a defender because he isn’t a lockdown guy you put on the best player. Perhaps you need a lockdown guy or want more of them, but you can’t be so narrow in a definition where anything that isn’t a lockdown guy therefore isn’t a defender. Same goes for offense. He’s not offensively like Jokic or Embiid, but he has his own value. You can make a strong argument that his type of offensive skill set could be preferable, depending on the rest of the roster makeup, because his offensive value isn’t tied to his usage and he can facilitate an offense adding even more positive guys who are higher usage.

A better question is how many other good offensive centers can have the same level of impact he has offensively if they had his usage? That’s the issue here. Everyone “good” on offense wants to fight over usage. Here you can put someone into your offensive who is every bit as good, if not better, without affecting your usage.
 
stitches said:
My point is - you don't know what the next trend will be and what the outcomes will be. At the time I was arguing about not investing tons in the PG position, because the trends at the time were that the elite PGs were not winning. In hindsight that looks silly and not very predictive of what was about to happen in the next 6-7-8 years...
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I know. I’m being sarcastic.
 
Rudy may not be a top 15 player but if you have enough of the right talent on the floor with him you should
be able to win a ring with him starting
Rudy is still very good
 
I’d be fine keeping Gobert. One of the best to ever put on a Jazz uniform. But I’d also love to see him with actual wing defenders on his team. Imagine him in the Robert Williams role on the Celtics? With high level perimeter defenders around him he would absolutely dominate.

Thinking of a Nick Nurse defense with OG and Scottie Barnes types around him? Yeesh.

If the rest of the league doesn’t recognize that value, then let’s keep him. But we gotta move other pieces in that case. Running it back would be a nightmare. Would rather lose every single player on the current team.
 
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